"She wants to see her children before they become grown up."

Translation: Elle veut voir ses enfants avant qu'ils ne deviennent grands.

[Serxwebun]

So, I wrote this sentence exactly like the suggested solution, except for the word "ne": "Elle veut voir ses enfants avant qu'ils deviennent grands." What grammatical function does the "ne" fulfill?

[eunoia]

I made the same mistake. Not sure why a negation is needed here.

[Skipping.Stars]

Okay, so I'm not sure why the "ne" is needed here either. I know that in subjunctive cases, when the first clause expresses a "negative emotion" such as fear, doubt, etc. you put the "ne" into the second clause. But here, I don't understand why it's used becuase "elle veut que" doesn't seem to qualify using the negative emotion rule. Also, I know that in colloquial French the "ne" is often considered optional, and is kind of disappearing

[Shanigans]

Avant que is followed by ne. I put avant qu'ils ne grandissent. Should that not be acceptable ?

[n6zs]

Elle veut voir ses enfants avant qu'ils ne grandissent is better for French and for English, IMO. She wants to see her children before they grow up.

[cosmopolita61]

I agree,that's what I wrote too

[deactivated user]

I know this exercise is for subjunctive verbs but is not "elle veut voir ses enfants avant ils deviennent grandi" a valid translation? Also would like to understand the significance of the "ne" in the subjunctive form

Edit: On further investigation I have found the answer to the first part :
The subjunctive mood is used to express actions or ideas which are subjective or otherwise uncertain: will/wanting, emotion, doubt, possibility, necessity, judgment. It is nearly always found in dependent clauses introduced by que or qui, and the subjects of the dependent and main clauses are usually different.

Still do not understand why "ne" is required :)

[ronjudd]

Moi aussi.

[smearedink]

http://french.about.com/od/grammar/a/negation_form_2.htm

[adesva]

Is there any way to use grossir here? If so, how would it look?

[DebbieBamb]

Wouldn't that mean to get fat? That doesn't mean the same as growing up!

[lizcoko]

I took 'grown up' to mean adult and I used the word 'adultes'. Is this completely wrong or can it also be correct?

[joxxman]

@adesva: grossir is to gain some weight for example, does not fit in this situation

[DanHil]

Man, this lesson is hard. According to the German wikipedia "les verbes de volonté" (like vouloir) require the subjonctif. That's why I used "Elle veut voie ...". Why is this incorrect?

[lizcoko]

(simplified explanation) To use the subjunctive you need a main clause using one of the verbs you mentioned and a subordinate clause introduced by 'que'. "Elle veut que je fasse les devoirs." In addition a change of subject is required. What is above is just a modal formation with two verbs and one subject. 'Elle veut voir...' 2nd verb will be in the infinitive form. Hope that helps a bit.

[DanHil]

So, basically, the verb after the "que" is in subjonctif if the verb before it is "vouloir" (or another one of the trigger verbs)?

[lizcoko]

Basically yes provided there is a change of subject too.

[DanHil]

Not sure I understand that one. Could you provide me with two sentences where one has a change in subject and one doesn't? That would be nice :-)

[lizcoko]

Most times the subject will be different but if it is the same then an infinitive is used. Je veux que tu reviennes. vs Je veux revenir. Ils préfèrent que nous restions. vs Ils préfèrent rester. One that would not be so apparent would be:
(wrong) --->Je suis content que je sois là.
(correct) --->Je suis content d'être là.
I'm happy to be here.

[DanHil]

Can't reply to your latest post, so I am posting here: Thanks a lot that was very helpful! :-)

[magnolitao]

"Elle veut veut voir ses enfants avant qu'ils ne devienent grands." very bad ! sure !
1.. elle veut voir ses enfants avant qu'ils n'aient grandi
2. elle veut voir ses enfants avant qu'ils ne soient grands

[magnolitao]

Why this spelling ?

1.. elle veut voir ses enfants avant qu'ils n'aient grandi (i think no "s" in grandi because whe have the verb "avoir" before, then no accord in genre or number)

1. elle veut voir ses enfants avant qu'ils ne soient grands ('s" in "grands" : the auxiliar is "être", so you have to accord in genre and number)

[AaronDandr]

Why "adulte" is wrong?

[salvadorlopz]

Grandir also means to grow up.....also is the ne expletif really mandatory?

[d10nte]

Can anybody tell me if it would ever be correct to say "avant qu'ils ont devenu grands?" Thanks in advance.

[cosmopolita61]

It wouldn't. Devenir is constructed with être and not with avoir. So it would be sont instead or ont. Besides,you need the subjunctive.
And you need the "ne" in this construction: avant qu'ils ne soient devenus grands".
Hope I'm right with everything :-)