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- "A legyek rovarok vagy bogara…
17 Comments
1980
All bugs are indeed insects (members of the order Hemiptera); all insects, however are not bugs, if one uses the term in a precise, scientific way. If one uses the term in a general, informal way to refer to any small, terrestrial invertebrate, then presumably all insects are bugs, too. Either way, the sentence doesn't make much sense!
I don't know what exactly the Hungarian word 'bogár' means, however. The dictionary I have gives both 'insect' and 'beetle', whereas the Hungarian Wikipedia article on bogarak seems to use the term to refer specifically to beetles (Coleoptera). Can a Hungarian speaker perhaps clarify the difference between rovarok and bogarak?
bogár = bug, beetle
"Beetles are a group of insects that form the order Coleoptera. The word coleoptera is from the Greek κολεός, koleós, meaning "sheath"; and πτερόν, pterón, meaning "wing", thus "sheathed wing", because most beetles have two pairs of wings, the front pair, the "elytra", being hardened and thickened into a shell-like protection for the rear pair and the beetle's abdomen."
rovar = insect (more formal (and rather used in science topics) word for the same is 'ízeltlábú'
"Insects (from Latin insectum, a calque of Greek ἔντομον [éntomon], "cut into sections") are a class of invertebrates within the arthropod phylum that have a chitinous exoskeleton, a three-part body (head, thorax and abdomen), three pairs of jointed legs, compound eyes and one pair of antennae."
ízeltlábú comes from 1. the verb of ízel, ízekre szed = cut into parts, smaller sections 2. the noun of láb = leg
all in all, all bugs are insects, but not all insects are bugs
Not a native speaker, but when I was in Hungary I surely never heard calling "bogár", say, flies, mosquitoes, ants or bees. Anyway, the sentence would make sense only if bugs and insects where two separate classes, which they are not.
I thought: Rovar = Insect, Bogar = Beetle, Bug but I'm just a girl, we don't know much about these things, though I'm a native speaker...
- 1980
Beetles and true bugs can often look very similar. So 'bogar' does refer to a particular subset of insects, rather than being a general term for any small invertebrate?
Rovar: insect in general.
Bogár: it has a hardened wing-case. So wikipedia says bogár=beetle.
Therefore, a fly is an insect, but not a beetle. A légy rovar, de nem bogár.
Sort of... For example, in English, at least, spiders are bugs, but scientifically speaking, they are not insects, but arachnids.
- 2476
In my dialect of English, at least, "bug" can refer (informally) to any small creepy crawly thing, including small spiders (though I don't think I've ever heard it used to refer to, say, a tarantula)
- 1967
I have often heard people restrict the word "bug" to insects, though not only hemiptera (my daughter was very into entomology when she was little, and insisted on that distinction). More broadly, I have heard it used of all arthropods, even shrimp, lobsters, etc, or even all small organisms, such as bacteria or copepods. In Hungarian, I have heard "bogár" used most specifically of beetles, such as the katicabogár, the ladybird beetle, but have also heard it used indeterminately of little, crawly things.
- 500
Many bugs are not insects but other small arthropods: gömbászka (pill bugs), for example. That is why the scientifically delineated group is called the true bugs.
Mostly all insects are beetles -- God really loves beetles (or the Beatles, to the neglect of the Crickets they took their name from) as they say. Flies are descended through ants, bees, and wasps from beetles. Still I'd like to hear about the etymology of the word bogár, as this sort of science is too recent. Surely it meant something different in the past? People these days, they think words are just about science -- why do they think Linnaeus gave us scientific names?
- 510
Still I'd like to hear about the etymology of the word bogár
My Etimologiák suggests it comes from "bug".
- 847
It's intended to be a general sentence, a statement about all flies. It's unlikely that it only pertains a certain group of flies.
- 510
General statements in English do not use "the". With the "the" in the sentence it means one particular group of flies.
