"Azok a könyvek drágák, amelyek híresek."

Translation:Books that are famous are expensive.

July 3, 2016

32 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/GerSzej

totally frustrating again!!!! here "those" is not accepted, exactly the same structure was used several times and sometimes "those" is rejected and sometimes "the" is rejected. Please review all these sentences and either accept both, or make the answers consistent.

August 16, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Phozzonunnium

Is there a difference between amelyek and amik ?

July 3, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/96314081311257

Ami(k) is used when the corresponding question word is mi(k) or milyen(ek). (in English: what) Amely(ik)(ek) is used when the corresponding questions word is mely(ik)(ek)et. (in English: which)

Example:

(1) Mi drága? Ami híres.

(2) Milyen könyvek drágák? Amik híresek. (What books?)

(3) Melyik könyvek drágák? Amelyikek híresek. (Which books?)

In practise it means that whenever amely is correct, you could also use ami, but not the other way around.

Mindent megtettem, amit tudtam. (I did everything I could.) But not: *Mindent megtettem, amelyet tudtam. (Which did you do? <- That's nonsense.)

July 8, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/hatcher

I don't think so.

July 3, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/ToddCorbin1

I wrote, "The books that are expensive are the famous ones." It marked it wrong, but it actually means exactly the same thing and is totally correct in English.

May 10, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Arcaeca

Seriously, can we just decide whether "az(ok) a" at the beginning of a sentence like this means "the" or "that/those"? It's - rather unnecessarily - consistently inconsistently translated (see also the "azok a televiziok rosszak" sentence) and it's getting quite old, even for a Beta course.

July 26, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/ray.meredith

I agree, and I'm reporting these inconsistencies every time I see them.

August 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/SamanthaGasmire

me too

August 29, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/JzquelThom

really struggling with word order here. "Those books are expensive, which are famous" is accepted, but nobody would ever say that. I don't get the context in which one would use this sentence in Hungarian.

April 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/LeahLederm

I would feel the same but my parents spoke Hungarian so I heard it and it makes sense in the language. In english though it sonds so strange. I would probably say: "Those are the expensive books - the famous ones" or simply "Those famous books are the expensive ones"

April 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Elloughton

I think this is very difficult if you are not a native English speaker; The sentence has to be rearranged, away from the Hungarian Topic...Focus construction, So.... "Those books which are famous are expensive" works well, and was accepted. I suggest writing these difficult sentences and their translation down for future reference; and try not to despair!

May 21, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/ion1122

Arcaeca, I don't recall seeing the inconsistencies you are complaining about. The "az/azok a/az" (double article) has always been translated (or should always be translated) as 'that' rather than 'the'.

Note, however, the difference between 'azok a drágák könyvek' and 'Azok a könyvek drágák'. The former is a sentence fragment meaning 'those expensive books'. The latter is a complete sentence meaning 'Those books are expensive'.

One clue to the difference is whether you see the adjective (here 'drágák) before or after the noun. Since in Hungarian attributive adjectives come before the noun, seeing 'drágák' after 'könyvek' here is a sure sign that there is a missing word 'is/are' needed for the English translation.

July 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/LeahLederm

dear ion1122 the first part of the sentence isn't the problem. we all understood that part. the second part creates the confusion. If a translation like " Those expensive books are famous" were eccepted we wouldn't have any problem. but it is not exactly what the Hungarian sentence meens .

July 5, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/ion1122

Hi LeahLederm. A couple of points:

  1. Take a look at the comment from Arcaeca at the top of this page. It is the first part of the sentence that he is complaining about, not the second.

  2. As for your question, let's look at "Azok a könyvek drágák, amelyek híresek." Literally, this is: "Those books are expensive, that are famous." As a native English speaker, the only adjustment I need to make in order to translate this successfully is to adjust the word order. Specifically, I move the clause at the end (that are famous) to the position immediately after the word 'books': "Those books that are famous are expensive." This means the same as "Books that are famous are expensive" or even "Famous books are expensive."

July 5, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/LeahLederm

Hello again and thanks for your response. As I mentioned before the frustrating part isn't the translation into English but the fact that the computer rejects perfectly good translations and accepts only specific forms even if it doesn't make sense to the English speaker. I agree with Elloughton who suggested, in this discussion, to write down the computer version and give it back the next time so that we can move ahead. It seems to have aggravated many people...

July 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Zsuzsi97194

Are we trying to learn Hungarian here or English? If it's Hungarian then when we are asked to translate from Hungarian to English let's learn to use the English syntax, not a translated syntax. No one would say in English what we are told to say here. The real English translation is simpler: " Famous books are expensive."

96314081311257's explanation of Ami(k) etc below is great as a Hungarian lesson, and I really appreciate it because that I am trying to learn ENG ->HU and I need to get the differences between usages in Hungarian.

I think that there are a lot of people here who are trying to learn Hungarian that don't have a good grasp of English, so it is helpful we English speakers should correct strange English translations.I have been sending them in, but a year behind others who have been doing this for some time. When I see complaints from a year ago that we must be patient because the course is in Beta I think, what, still?

December 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/ion1122

I agree with you that we are here to learn Hungarian, not English. But for that reason, I'm willing to accept an awkward English translation if it illuminates the structure of the original Hungarian.

For example, in the translation here, the translation "Famous books are expensive" may be better English, but it does not spotlight the clause structure of the original Hungarian, as does "those books are expensive, that are famous."

That said, I have the feeling that the original Hungarian sentence here may also be strange Hungarian. I suspect that Hungarian too could directly say "Famous books are expensive", using simple adjectives and avoiding the clause structure.

In other words, I suspect the Hungarian here may be artificial, chosen to introduce us to the clause structure, but perhaps not what a Hungarian would really have to say in order to get his/her point across. Or am I mistaken?

December 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/LeahLederm

you cant correct my english but my hungarian. the meaning is the same and the way i put it makes much sense in english. i get stuck and can't go forward because of that. its wrong

December 5, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/PekoBodin

It is the famous books that are expensive?

December 20, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/LeahLederm

It's a great translation. I don't know if the program accepts it. I don't remember where this specific sentence appears

July 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/clairelanc3

The translation does not mean anything

October 31, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/clairelanc3

We can never be sure : azok a is sometimes translated by "the ones that/who" ,sometimes by "those ones that/which/who". Maybe BITH could be accepted?

February 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/clairelanc3

I wrote "those/the" since Duolinguo seems to hesitate but it was still no good!

February 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/clairelanc3

Could we translate : famous books are expensive"?

March 31, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ion1122

I believe the translation into Hungarian of your sentence would be: A híres könyvek drágák.

That is a different Hungarian sentence from the one we are given, even though they mean about the same thing.

True, your English sentence is more graceful than the DL English sentence. However, the DL English, although it is awkward, better illuminates the structure of the original Hungarian.

See the other comments on this page, including my earlier comments.

March 31, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/LeahLederm

this reply is to iom1122 about the idea that "Hungarian here may be artificial, chosen to introduce us to the clause structure, but perhaps not what a Hungarian would say in real life." well my parents always spoke like that and if you have any Hungarian channel like Duna you'll be able to hear this structure all the time, I don't know if modern Hungarian has any adaptation and I doubt it.

April 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ion1122

Thank you, Leah. My comment was about this particular DL example, not the general approach to relative clauses used in Hungarian.

In other words, why would a Hungarian say "Azok a könyvek drágák, amelyek híresek = Those books are famous, that are expensive" when he/she could also say quite simply in Hungarian, "A híres könyvek drágák = "Famous book are expensive"?

April 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/betarage

Cant they just put in some kind of way to tell me what order the words are in because im just having to guess

March 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/TeresaMari890533

I wrote: 'The books which are famous are expensive'. Why is it wrong?

March 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/JanBending

why was my answer 'the books which are famous are expensive ' not allowed. ?which and that are interchangeable as relative pronouns in english .

March 30, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/JanBending

'The books which are expensive are the famous ones'- was rejected . Why ?

April 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/TeresaMari890533

Amelyek means 'which', so 'amelyek hiresek' means 'which are famous'; so it means: Books which are famous are expensive. As for your earlier problem, I had it too. Maybe 'the' is unnecessary, at least according to the key.

April 7, 2019
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