Translation:Those men are standing at the curtains too.
So this is what "áll" + "...höz" means - "goes to it and stands there"? (Implies an active movement happening moments before, which the standing is the end result of)
Before I read your comment I was under the impression that "áll" + "...hoz" were interchangeable with "áll" + "...nál" ; e.g., could as well be said about statues standing close to the curtains.
Yes. "Áll vmihez" and, by extension, "áll vmitől" describe that the person is moving to or from the object, respectively, and ends up standing at that location.
With "áll vminél" there's usually no movement happening. That's the normal "standing" in English.
The same accounts for the other static verbs, like ül and fekszik.
I can tell you that German and Danish (and by extension probably more Germanic languages) can make similar constructions. Similar to English, these languages feature two forms of these verbs, one intransitive (lie, sit, stand), and one transitive (lay, set, ... make stand?). Now, German and Danish can use the transitive form with a reflexive pronoun to mean that you're moving yourself to some place in that fashion.
- to stand / áll - stehen - at stå
- to make stand / állít - stellen - at stille
- I go and stand there. / Oda állok. - Ich stelle mich dort hin. - Jeg stiller mig derhenne.
Or with "lie", which works better in English:
- to lie / fekszik - liegen - at ligge
- to lay / fektet - legen - at lægge
- I lie down on the bed. / (Le)fekszem az ágyon. - Ich lege mich auf das Bett. - Jeg lægger mig på sengen.
With this translation i can understand the hungarian sentence :-) But i am not sure, if anybody uses such sentences in normal life. In German we are having a direct translation: Diese (jene) Männer stellen sich auch vor die Vorhänge. Learning hungarian through English is sometimes quite confusing.
The nearest I could get to understandable English would be "Those men are also standing by the curtains" but a fat chance that would be accepted, especially now that we can't add comments. The worrying thing for me is they seem desperate to move on from Beta. Here is an extract from the latest contributors update a week ago.................................................. "We mentioned a couple of times that courses graduate from beta if the rate of error reports per 100 users remains below 3 for 14 days. On 21 June, we went below 3 for the first time, and we've stayed below since! Let's see what happens"...................https://incubator.duolingo.com/courses/hu/en/status Today is 30 June. ......I'm reporting more than 3 a day on my own!!!
So am I. Not difficult either, since the sentences are needlessly complex so there is always a zillion translations that are not yet in the system. To move on from Beta, my advice would be to rewrite this entire course, and include lots of the comments that helpful people like VVSEY give here into the teaching notes.
Would one not translate the movement into English with:
- those men go and stand at the curtains, too
- those men go stand at the curtains, too In my mother tongue, Dutch, I would translate this into: die mannen gaan ook bij de gordijnen staan.
Now all these translations are technically near future tense, but that is because English and Dutch take the standing literally, you cannot stand and move to stand at the same time. So near future (go do something) is the way to express movement in our languages, when this obviously is not needed in Hungarian.
Am I right in assuming this and translating the áll valamihoz with near future tense?
We often use the gramm. present tense for future actions in Hungarian. "odaáll a falhoz" means: s/he is not standing at the wall but s/he is getting there and her/his present action is going to finish in the near future when s/he reaches the wall and stays there motionless (and this standing at the wall is expressed: a falnál áll - continuously) My English is not good enough to suggest the right translation but I hope I could help you
According the discussion page at https://www.duolingo.com/comment/19311654, the answer should be "Those men stand to the curtains too." How are we supposed to know when Duolingo wants "at the curtains" or "to the curtains"? This is not the first time I have found conflicting "correct" answers?
"Those men stand to the curtains" is grammatically incorrect. English cannot handle verbs of non-motion (stand, sit, lie) together with indicators of direction, like "to". Well, unless it has some idiomatic meaning.
Hungarian doesn't care. The Hungarian sentence is fine and means something along the lines of "Those men go and stand by the curtains, too."
Those men also go to stand at the curtains. Not accepted, reported. The answer given here by Duo is surely wrong. There is no suggestion of movement and if they ARE STANDING, it seems much more like a fixed position, e.g a függönyök mellett állnak. We have had this several times now and, for example, odaálltok az autóhoz? has been happily translated to mean, "Are you going to stand by the car?" (Albeit we have the prefix with that example). What appears to have happened is that this question hasn't yet caught up with the debate and we've got lots of comments. Absolutely right, this isn't easy to get at in English but consistency is important and if it's függönyökhöz where the standing happens, we need a movement word to get the people there. There are masses of comments so I hope my suggestion is accepted.
Ryagon IV's comment below is really important.
The translation here on Duo would be great is the Hungarian was "a'llnak a fuggonyokne'l". But the -hoz suffik makes a simple "standing at" an inappropriate translation - the sense of movement clearly conveyed by this in Hungarian is entirely lost.
This therefore suggests something like "moves to stand at the curtains", something covered elsewhere on comments for similar sentences elsewhere on the course. This idiom in Hungarian doesn't readily translate exactly to English, but "moves/goes up to the curtains" is probably the most economic and accurate even if the former is a little stilted. It reflects the preferred answers elsewhere in the course.