"A train is like this."

Translation:Ilyen egy vonat.

July 5, 2016

33 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mjs2019

Can you just say "Ilyen vonat?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

that would simply mean "train like this" or "such train"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WinningFields

ilyen in hungarian means "like this/the same", but 'alien' in english means "he/this is different"...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Liggliluff

While a nice joke, "ilyen" isn't pronounced "ilien", but "ijen", so it isn't that similar to "alien" (ejlien)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tielbert

Why can't I use VAN in this sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Hungarian doesn't use van or vannak in copula sentences. That are sentences of the type "[Subject] is [quality]", for example:

  • Ez vonat. - This is a train.
  • A házak zöldek. - The houses are green.
  • János orvos. - János is a doctor.
  • A barátaim nagyszerűek. - My friends are great.

However, the other conjugations of van are still used, either regarding other grammatical persons, or for sentences in the past tense:

  • Ez volt vonat. - This was a train.
  • A házak zöldek voltak. - The houses were green.
  • Orvos vagyok. - I am a doctor.
  • Nagyszerűek voltatok. - You were great.

And van and vannak are used in question of existence, location, or time, i.e. external properties:

  • Ott van a vonat. - The train is there.
  • Vannak zöld házak. - There are green houses.
  • Az orvos az irodája van. - The doctor is in her office.
  • Barátaim vannak. - I have friends. (lit. "Friends exist for me")

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Christa687973

Köszönöm szepen!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Meamz

In everyday sentences it's common to not use a unique words for the subjects or the verbs. Unfortunately I can't tell you any reason behind this, but it's better to look it up somewhere.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Apahegy

How does it sound if I say "egy vonat mint ez?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stuttgart3

Ehm, maybe gramatically correct, but I'd put 'ilyen' or 'olyan' there: "Egy olyan vonat mint ez."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hatcher

"egy vonat mint ez" means "a train like this". Another way to say is "Egy vonat ilyen."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

That doesn't mean the same because it actually doesn't include a predicate, not even implied. It's really just "a train like this".
If you want to say a whole sentence, you should say "Egy vonat olyan, mint ez." and I don't think it sounds similar to the original sentence. It sounds like you are pointing at something visually illustrating what "a train" is similar to.
The same for "Egy olyan vonat, mint ez." It can be "This is a train like this" or just "a train like this" - but it's still about stricter, demonstrated similarity.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Richard604037

Why isn't this treated as a general statement so that "A" becomes required? Hungarian does it a lot and we often see general statements written in English which, when translated, have "A" at the beginning or somewhere within the sentence to denote the generality of what is said. Here, however, even though the sentence implies that a train is generally like this, we use egy rather than a. Why is this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

Actually, "egy" can also express generalness.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregWood15

That's a very novel statement for this course!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

I think I have mentioned it a couple of times and apparently it's the same in English. Anyways, if you have any idea regarding where you would like it to be mentioned, you are welcome to give some advice. ^^


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregWood15

Well, ideally, it would be good if it were stated in the course tips, but that is probably outside of your scope. I wasn't critising, just highlighting the contrast between your statement and the course notes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Richard604037

Suppose the English is "A lion roars." Will the generalness of egy enable me to say egy oroszlán üvölt? I had thought that because this is a general statement about a lion that I must say "az oroszlán üvölt." Note that I'm not referring to a specific lion that just happens to be roaring somewhere; I'm making a general statement about the characteristics of a lion.

If we turn to the plural, in English, we need no article at all. Lions roar and that's it. However, in Hungarian, we need az oroszlánok üvöltenek. Is it the case that once we have the singular and the need for an article in both languages, Hungarian will use egy as an alternative for a?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

If anything, it's "üvölt" that kinda ruins it, no matter the article. Probably "üvölteni szokott" sounds more general. Apart from that, I think "egy" works as it often does.

It's hard to say which would be preferred when, in real life. But it's definitely an existing thing and therefore accepting "egy" as a translation is quite reasonable I think. Whether to accept "a(z)" or not is a good question - to avoid confusion, maybe it would be better to simply avoid these sentences...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregWood15

You have the support of MrtonPolgr, below. Unfortunately, someone down-voted Alex705808's comment.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dortyol

"A" means "the". So you wrote - The train is like this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

Well, to be honest, I also considered this solution since it sort of feels like we are talking about trains in general...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregWood15

I'd be inclined to agree.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lukutar

What is the difference between ilyen and milyen?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ntnkj

Ilyen means "like this", and milyen is a question word that means "like what?".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarkusRamikin

What is this sentence supposed to mean exactly? What possible situation would you hear or use it in?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

"Man, it's pretty shaky and loud in here. I wouldn't have taken this journey if I had known that beforehand."
*shrug* "A train is like this." (Or maybe "Trains are like this." Either is fine, as far as Hungarian is concerned.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Patricia460976

Must I include "egy?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

Unless you want to say something different ("ilyen vonat") or something that I don't think anyone has ever said ("vonat ilyen"), you should include "egy".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Patricia460976

Ah, ok, thank you!

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