"אתה רואֶה משאית?"

Translation:Do you see a truck?

July 5, 2016

62 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lfd

I cannot hear the ר sound in the recording.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SarahLeahS

But that's exactly how it's said on the street


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/datPROVOLONE99

I can hear it, the ר sound is not exactly like an R in English. A guy on Youtube that I saw explained it really well it's more like a w sound that comes from the back of your mouth near your throat like "wro"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SilasKulkarni

I'm pretty sure it is not there. It would be nice if they explained this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

It is there, I can hear it. But as with all new languages, you have to get used to the sounds and rapid speech before you can distinguish some things that are said.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RoseDark94

ata ro'eh masait?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bendespain

Are you seeing a truck?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ani_sofer

Technically could be correct, just sounds a bit strange in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NashonJair

I think it's spoken to fast... for first starters in new languages. I heard At..masa'EET, I could make the assumption, but that's not the point of learning a language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LaVonne940944

I don't understand why Duolingo doesn't offer turtle mode in Hebrew like they do with Spanish. It helps a lot to be able to hear the words separately as well as run together.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

Only computer generated voices can be slowed down. Hebrew has native Hebrew speakers reading the sentences.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MorlandLaura

I was about to chime in with the same answer when I saw yours.

What I don't understand is why only computer-generated voices can be slowed down into "turtle mode." I'm sure a sound engineer could answer my question -- perhaps there's too much distortion from a normally-recorded voice? It makes the register drop weirdly low?

In any case, LaVonne940944, I have found that using headphones makes a big difference. Sometimes when I listen to a Hebrew sentence here, I at first despair of making sense of the words, but if I play it over a few times, listening with headphones, the penny will suddenly drop!

Finally, many other contributors to the Forum recommend using www.forvo.com.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JHPoole5

Is the ר silent?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/XMVZiron

How can I know if ש is pronounced like a s or a sh?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/synp
  • 1211

You're not going to like the answer. Unless the dot is there, you just don't know. You have to know the word.

You know how in English you sometimes see a word in writing for years and never hear it spoken, and then you hear it spoken and it's pronounced very differently than what you thought? Happened to me with "segue". Who knew it was pronounced like "Segway"? It's the same with the ש in Hebrew. You just have to know how the word is pronounced. And it's usually better to assume sh. It's more common because all words borrowed from other languages with an s sound were written with ס.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rochelle43

No way could I understand this. It all rolled into one


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StephanieN686627

I got it wrong because I didn't put the three dots beneath the alef. I thought we weren't expected to use those dots?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MorlandLaura

Duolingo never expects us learners to produce nikkud (the three dots, etc.). The only time Duolingo marks us wrong for nikkud is when it gives us options to click on words to form a sentence, and we make the wrong choice for the gender of the noun or pronoun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JPOrtegon

What is משאית transliteration?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ani_sofer

masa'it - masa'EET - מַשָׂאִית


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hectorlqr

Atá ro'é masa'ít.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DeborahWal313051

Spoken voices can definitely be made to slow down. I listen to overdrive audio books and can speed up or slow down the recording. Duolingo should definitely be able to do the same thing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MorlandLaura

According to benton.1 in his long explanation above [EDIT: not the message he posted 5 minutes ago], the human voices cannot be slowed down without distortion.

I'm no expert at all, but I will state that I have put aside Hebrew for the past 3 or 4 weeks (I'm travelling a lot) and started Italian instead -- soooo easy, compared to Hebrew! -- and the turtle speed is incredibly slow. Much slower than anyone could stand to listen to as an audio book. Also it creates huge pauses between words.

So benton.1 may indeed be correct about the distortion. The machine wouldn't know where to pause between words, even....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

It depends on the technology. The computerized TTS system, where a computer reads and voices the text, which is used by most of the Duolingo Language classes, can be slowed down, but the classes here that are recorded by people cannot be.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TobyBartels

Why are there pointing dots here for once?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rochelle43

I just wonder , but I may be wrong, if the pointing dots as you called them (they are actually the vowels) are there because normally you would pronounce a letter like that aleph as "a" as in the word "bat" but the 3 dots is the vowel that is pronounced "e" as in the word egg. There is also a vowel with 3 dots under each other at an angle like a french accent except under the letter which is pronounced as "oo" as in the word "boo". There is a vowel that you find at the beginning of a word which is 2 dots straight down which is pronounced like a short "i" as in the word "bit". There are another couple of vowels using the letters but I won't confuse you further!! Children are taught to read using the vowels but they are not usually used in modern Hebrew only in Hebrew used in prayers in the synagogue out of Israel.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

Rochelle, I like your informative post. One small correction, though. The 3 dots under a letter is pronounced eh like the e in "bed". It's called "segol" סגול.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MorlandLaura

It's possible that Rochelle speaks a dialect of English where the "e" in "egg" and the "e" and "bed" are pronounced the same. I know native speakers of English who pronounce it that way!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/John251426

I am a native speaker of English, and I am familiar with a range of different varieties of English from different parts of the world. I cannot think of one where the "e" in "egg" and the "e" in "bed" would not be pronounced the same!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

A lot of people pronounce the "e" in egg as a long "a" sound: "aigg". Those two sounds are really close in the word "egg", for some reason, but not in the word bed: "baid". ??? Go figure.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MorlandLaura

John251426, have you ever lived in the South (of the U.S.)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TobyBartels

I know what נקדות are, but Duolingo almost never uses them, yet here one is. Is it used in this word in modern Israeli writing, and if so, then why?; and if not, then why is Duolingo using it?

I realize now that it's to distinguish ‘רואֶה’ fro‎m ‘רואָה’, but I still wonder if ‘רואה’ always has dots in modern Hebrew or it's just Duolingo condescending to use them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/synp
  • 1211

The simple answer is that there are no rules for when to use them. If you want to know how often Israelis use them, ask them if they know how to make them in their favorite OS/word processor. You'll usually get a blank stare, although there is a way. Newspapers and books will add them occasionally on specific letters when the word is unknown and they don't expect the readers to know how to read this. This is why Duolingo added this here.

The Hebrew academy proposed some years ago something called the seven-dot system of partial nikkud that would solve most ambiguities, but it was never widely adopted. So, no rules.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TobyBartels

Fair enough, thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ClaireEBen

The speech is garbled. Several times the word roeh - see is slurred and when the word for truck is next, it sounds like ema sa-eet.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

The normal pronunciation of רואה משאית is /ro-E-ma-sa-EET/. Do you expect anything different?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CatheIrwin

This sentence went by way too fast for beginning learners! It would be helpful if there was a SLOW button, like there is in the Italian course, so we could hear it both fast and slow. THAT would facilitate actual LEARNING, not just guessing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

It would be nice, but I don't believe they can do it because the sentences are read by people and not a computer. Slowing the recordings down would probably distort the voices, if they could even slow them down.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CatheIrwin

You're right that they probably could not slow down the recording. I think what they do with the Italian course is have people say each individual word slowly and precisely, and then they use this "Word Bank" for sentence dictation. You can listen to the sentence at regular speed, like you might hear on the street. Or, you can push the little turtle button, and the sentence is read one word at a time (no elisions or joining words together) so that each word can be heard and distinguished from the word that follows. That approach has really helped me in my sentence dictation. I would think that would be possible with the Hebrew course, if someone wanted to take the time to do it. It certainly would make this course much more "user friendly"!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benton.1

I use the "turtle speed" a lot in the languages that have it. As I said, though, all the other languages, which includes Italian, use Text To Speech computers to read the words and sentences. Unlike the human voice recordings, the TTS can be slowed without distorting the sound. It was expensive to have voice actors read the sentences for the Hebrew course, which was done because there is, I read, no good TTS system for the Hebrew language. The Arabic course had lots of problems with their TTS recording. A lot of words were being pronounced incorrectly because the TTS system couldn't read the Arabic correctly. The developers had to do away with the case ending that are used in Classical and Modern Standard Arabic, which they were trying to teach, in order to correct the pronunciation. From what I've read on these threads, until a good TTS system for Hebrew is created, we probably will not be having any "Turtle Speed" for Hebrew.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CatheIrwin

Thanks for the explanation and insight! Very helpful.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MorlandLaura

Yes, תודה ! Here's a lingot.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/joshfeldy

Thanks Joseph. I wish duo had pointing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pauli_tics

I got it wrong because I translated it to English as "Have you seen a truck?" What would be the Hebrew of my mistaken translation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/synp
  • 1211

We don't have perfect tenses, so it's about the past:

האם ראית משאית?

Or maybe

כבר ראית משאית?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Or just ראית משאית?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RuqiyahHad

אתה רואה משאית?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RuqiyahHad

כן, אני רואה משאית.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rikle3

Is the word רואה female or male or is it the same word for both?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

When written without niqqud, same for both.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HerzPfleger

Listened several times and never heard the ר. It was ridiculously fast for brand new learners.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sepideh408471

What's the difference between רואה and רואֶה? I'm confused.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Do you know what niqqud is?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Erin75117

Is there a rule in Hebrew, for why רואה in particular ends in a 'hey' (ה) but the ending sofit form for hey is 'het' (ח)? Hebrew seems so consistent otherwise; this small part is confusing to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Not sure what you mean by "the ending sofit form for hey is 'het' (ח)". There is no relation between these two letters except for maybe similar sound and, well, similar shape...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Erin75117

You right; this was something I learned after studying further. Thank you^^


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marsurius

I feel like this is a very weird sentence to be learned in the second lesson of hebrew - it would be easier to dive into the language if the learning curve in the first lessons was not as steep


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MorlandLaura

Well, marsurius, I'm not sure why you find it weird. It's a simple construction: subject + verb + object

Yes, there are niqqud, but this sentence doesn't actually require us to know whether the speaker is male or female, and so the niqqud here shouldn't bother us.

(But it's helpful to know that this verb will come up a lot, and so it's a good one to learn.)

P.S. I made it through to whatever level I'm on in Hebrew -- I've taken a break to study Italian, because I'll be visiting Italy in April -- by depending hugely on this Forum. So I encourage you to continue as you have done, to read the posts in the Forum. There are a couple of people here (Yarden and Danny) who are very knowledgeable. Yarden is a native speaker, and Danny has studied Biblical Hebrew.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/indioamericano

I put "Do you see a van?", because it was in the suggestion field, but it was consequently rejected. I reported it. : |


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

Van is טנדר (tender), ואן (van) or מסחרית (mischarit), but not משאית.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MorlandLaura

I'm wondering how there can be one word that means both truck and van? To me, they are such different vehicles; the only thing they have in common is that they are both larger than a sedan.

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