I happen to be reading the Trilogy at this very time :D
Would be awesome to be able to read it in Hungarian one day!!!
to Bastette54. Knowing popular culture is how one is identified as being totally fluent. When spies are taught languages they have to know the idioms and the popular references that any child growing up in the spied on country would automatically know.
Just dropping in to note that it will be awhile before I'm gonna feel confident to apply for that spy job I've dreamed about.
The same here, I would certainly order beer with the wrong three fingers. Három sörököt kérem. And I am dead... ;-)
Oh, Hungarian is so hard to make infiltration impossible. Now it all makes sense.
Knowing the culture of the people who speak the language you're learning is important for complete fluency, I agree. But Lord of the Rings didn't originate in Hungarian culture, even if the books and movies are popular there. Why should someone know those stories to be fluent in this language?
Exactly. And unfortunately I've tried to read it a few times and got so bored I could never go beyond the twentieth page!
I tried to add in a "sleuth" emoji here but the site won't accept it, so just pretend you see me with a magnifying glass and a trenchcoat. hahaha
And my sentence has been marked as incorrect since I didn't know the quote.
I didn't either, but they took one ring above all. Maybe they fixed it. Might be wise to brush up on Beowulf looking ahead.
I just got dinged again because I forgot to put "one ring to rule them all!" I know the quote, but I thought this course was about learning Hungarian?
Well yes, it is. But by subtly being induced to unlearn English, you get the impression that you've gotten more Hungarian than you have. Kind of a confidence builder.
I successfully used one of the following (can't remember which):
1. One ring above all.
2. One ring above them all.
So you don't need to do the 'rule' thing from Lord of the Rings.
Not 100% true.: i get the puzzle exercise, in this case your alternate solution(s) is not available, so i have to know the LotR citation.
I translated this as "a ring is above all" ... didnt realize that this is LoR reference, as I dont understand these references in a foreign language... I think the "a ring" should be accepted as well - since there's no way of knowing that this is a special sentence taken out from a movie that needs one exact translation.
I agree with you. You didn't get the reference in a foreign language, and someone else might not get it at all. Because, you know, there are actually people in the world who haven't read the books or seen the movies. I've read the books, but I still didn't remember the exact quote. I don't have a problem with using popular culture references, but getting the translation right shouldn't depend on knowing the reference.
In your translation, where does the 'is' come from? Wouldn't the Hungarian sentence here require 'van' if 'is' was intended? How about without a verb: 'a ring above all' or 'one ring above all'?
(I realize that 'van' is omitted in some Hungarian sentences where English has 'is', but the sentence here is not one of those, is it?)
I think it is. "Van" is used if you're talking about a location, but in this case, it's not referring to a physical location ("felett") but metaphorical. I don't know if you're supposed to use "van" with metaphorical locations, but I would guess not.
Well, I'm no expert, but here are a couple of thoughts. First, it is not just physical locations, but any adverbial complement that requires van:
1. János a hazban van.
2. János jól van.
Existential constructions also require 'van': Van Isten?
To look at the matter from the other direction, it is only with predicate nouns and predicate adjectives that van is omitted (in the present tense):
1. János gazdag.
2. János tanár.
That is my understanding. So it comes down to whether 'mindenek felett' is an adverbial complement. It seems to me that it is, and that therefore a translation into Hungarian of the sentence 'A ring/one ring is above all' would be constructed using 'van'.
Therefore, the words we are given are a fragment, not a complete sentence. (Notice that neither the DL Hungarian sentence nor the DL English translation end with a punctuation mark -- a sign, perhaps, that a fragment rather than a complete sentence.is intended.)
Well, I'm already above my pay grade on this, so I'll stop now -- but you see where I'm coming from.
It's above my pay grade, too. :) We'll just have to let one of the native speakers settle it.
Good point... I frankly did not think about whether there should be "van" or not. I got this in Hungarian without van to translate to English ... I know that "van" is sometimes not used in senteces (in which there is "is" in English) and I was implicitly expecting to translate a sentence, not a fragment. Somehow I really did not analyze that and used my gut. My Hungarian gut is still quite embryotic though... So I guess "a ring above all" should be accepted, which it maybe is :) - I'll try next time I get to this sentence.
You can also translate 'egy' as 'one'. That might be better here. I would interpret 'a ring' to mean a ring rather than something other than a ring, whereas 'one ring' would mean one particular ring rather than some other ring.
I was just at the sentence where I had to write what I heard in Hungarian, not translate to English. I was surprised to see the translation after my writing was graded as correct
Well, "mindenek" is nominative plural, whereas "minden" is nominative singular. So I think the Hungarian here is saying "above all (the rings)" = above (them) all"; whereas "minden" would be saying "above all" = "above everything".
In other words, this is a ring greater than all other rings, but not necessarily greater than anything else at all.
Where does "to rule" come from? The translation proposes also "above " which was not in the words to chose from ( there was only "over" which was rejected.)
There is no "rule" in the Hungarian we are given here. However, in the English DL uses the word "rule" because that word is used in the line from the film from which this DL exercise is taken (Lord of the Rings).
... and this is incredibly unfair cuz not everybody is mainstream enough to know the phrase >:(
Since "One ring to rule them all" is the preferred translation, it's obvious that it's meant to be a reference. Shouldn't the official Hungarian translation ("Egy Gyűrű mind fölött") be used then?