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  5. "Egy gyűrű mindenek felett"

"Egy gyűrű mindenek felett"

Translation:One ring to rule them all

July 7, 2016

39 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TakizawaHideaki

OMG! Lord of the Rings reference. I love this course!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WaltQO
  • 1068

I happen to be reading the Trilogy at this very time :D

Would be awesome to be able to read it in Hungarian one day!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ljikontic

Is it better to translate One ring above them all


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

A good translation is 'one ring above all'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zsuzsi97194

to Bastette54. Knowing popular culture is how one is identified as being totally fluent. When spies are taught languages they have to know the idioms and the popular references that any child growing up in the spied on country would automatically know.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sherm0

Just dropping in to note that it will be awhile before I'm gonna feel confident to apply for that spy job I've dreamed about.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/guntunge

The same here, I would certainly order beer with the wrong three fingers. Három sörököt kérem. And I am dead... ;-)

Oh, Hungarian is so hard to make infiltration impossible. Now it all makes sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bastette54

Knowing the culture of the people who speak the language you're learning is important for complete fluency, I agree. But Lord of the Rings didn't originate in Hungarian culture, even if the books and movies are popular there. Why should someone know those stories to be fluent in this language?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/clairelanc3

Exactly. And unfortunately I've tried to read it a few times and got so bored I could never go beyond the twentieth page!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zsuzsi97194

I tried to add in a "sleuth" emoji here but the site won't accept it, so just pretend you see me with a magnifying glass and a trenchcoat. hahaha


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bastette54

But where is "rule" in this sentence? Is it implied by "felett"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dqJacO

It is implied by the context of the "Lord of the Rings" quotation. Otherwise, the sentence just means "One ring above all."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexandraV.

And my sentence has been marked as incorrect since I didn't know the quote.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sherm0

I didn't either, but they took one ring above all. Maybe they fixed it. Might be wise to brush up on Beowulf looking ahead.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bastette54

I just got dinged again because I forgot to put "one ring to rule them all!" I know the quote, but I thought this course was about learning Hungarian?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sherm0

Well yes, it is. But by subtly being induced to unlearn English, you get the impression that you've gotten more Hungarian than you have. Kind of a confidence builder.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

I successfully used one of the following (can't remember which):
1. One ring above all.
2. One ring above them all.

So you don't need to do the 'rule' thing from Lord of the Rings.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duolingo237910

Not 100% true.: i get the puzzle exercise, in this case your alternate solution(s) is not available, so i have to know the LotR citation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bridges2Life

Without a physical teacher present to build relationship with, and understand they are having some fun with us by using this quote, this is an unwise translation to force on the simple reading of the Hungarian words used in this sentence. Please understand you will not be able to do this kind of thing with remote students - because there is no person present to help us understand the other meaning intended by this kind of quote. In addition, when the only English words available to choose, for the translation of this sentence, exclude what is the simple meaning of the Hungarian words, the result is frustration and anger. If a physical teacher was here to lead the class, then she could help us understand the "cool" loose translation of this sentence and we could all experience a warm fuzzy feeling inside after her explanation. But, Duolingo is not winning "cool" points by doing this to remote students. Please change the other instances of this kind of thing in your curriculum also - this would actually be a way of showing you care about your remote students.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

I agree with much of what you say. However, the problem here has nothing to do with whether a physical teacher is present or not. The problem here is simply that the English translation DL offers is a poor one. The Hungarian should be translated as "one ring above all". That way, those who do not get the cultural reference to Tolkien will still be correctly translating the Hungarian.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bridges2Life

Yes, I would agree with you in calling this translation "poor" - only if that means a remote learner cannot understand this expected English translation from that Hungarian - - without human assistance.

And as a result, I would say the translation is wrong.

But, I am going further than faulting the translation. I am saying if a method of "coolness" is being attempted here, which requires human assistance to understand, then that method - at least with remote learning - is also wrong.

Even more than these two items, I am asking for all other instances of this kind of thing to be removed, as a kindness and demonstration of care toward their remote learners.

This seems reasonable to me ... and like this would be helpful to Duolingo for achieving their ultimate goals.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Iva818387

I translated this as "a ring is above all" ... didnt realize that this is LoR reference, as I dont understand these references in a foreign language... I think the "a ring" should be accepted as well - since there's no way of knowing that this is a special sentence taken out from a movie that needs one exact translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bastette54

I agree with you. You didn't get the reference in a foreign language, and someone else might not get it at all. Because, you know, there are actually people in the world who haven't read the books or seen the movies. I've read the books, but I still didn't remember the exact quote. I don't have a problem with using popular culture references, but getting the translation right shouldn't depend on knowing the reference.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

In your translation, where does the 'is' come from? Wouldn't the Hungarian sentence here require 'van' if 'is' was intended? How about without a verb: 'a ring above all' or 'one ring above all'?

(I realize that 'van' is omitted in some Hungarian sentences where English has 'is', but the sentence here is not one of those, is it?)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bastette54

I think it is. "Van" is used if you're talking about a location, but in this case, it's not referring to a physical location ("felett") but metaphorical. I don't know if you're supposed to use "van" with metaphorical locations, but I would guess not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

Well, I'm no expert, but here are a couple of thoughts. First, it is not just physical locations, but any adverbial complement that requires van:
1. János a hazban van.
2. János jól van.

Existential constructions also require 'van': Van Isten?

To look at the matter from the other direction, it is only with predicate nouns and predicate adjectives that van is omitted (in the present tense):
1. János gazdag.
2. János tanár.

That is my understanding. So it comes down to whether 'mindenek felett' is an adverbial complement. It seems to me that it is, and that therefore a translation into Hungarian of the sentence 'A ring/one ring is above all' would be constructed using 'van'.

Therefore, the words we are given are a fragment, not a complete sentence. (Notice that neither the DL Hungarian sentence nor the DL English translation end with a punctuation mark -- a sign, perhaps, that a fragment rather than a complete sentence is intended.)

Well, I'm already above my pay grade on this, so I'll stop now -- but you see where I'm coming from.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bastette54

It's above my pay grade, too. :) We'll just have to let one of the native speakers settle it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Iva818387

Good point... I frankly did not think about whether there should be "van" or not. I got this in Hungarian without van to translate to English ... I know that "van" is sometimes not used in senteces (in which there is "is" in English) and I was implicitly expecting to translate a sentence, not a fragment. Somehow I really did not analyze that and used my gut. My Hungarian gut is still quite embryotic though... So I guess "a ring above all" should be accepted, which it maybe is :) - I'll try next time I get to this sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

You can also translate 'egy' as 'one'. That might be better here. I would interpret 'a ring' to mean a ring rather than something other than a ring, whereas 'one ring' would mean one particular ring rather than some other ring.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zsuzsi97194

I was just at the sentence where I had to write what I heard in Hungarian, not translate to English. I was surprised to see the translation after my writing was graded as correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FheWIYzE

Why is it "mindenek" and not "minden"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

Well, "mindenek" is nominative plural, whereas "minden" is nominative singular. So I think the Hungarian here is saying "above all (the rings)" = above (them) all"; whereas "minden" would be saying "above all" = "above everything".

In other words, this is a ring greater than all other rings, but not necessarily greater than anything else at all.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/clairelanc3

Where does "to rule" come from? The translation proposes also "above " which was not in the words to chose from ( there was only "over" which was rejected.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

There is no "rule" in the Hungarian we are given here. However, in the English DL uses the word "rule" because that word is used in the line from the film from which this DL exercise is taken (Lord of the Rings).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AzzyDassler

... and this is incredibly unfair cuz not everybody is mainstream enough to know the phrase >:(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shamarth

Since "One ring to rule them all" is the preferred translation, it's obvious that it's meant to be a reference. Shouldn't the official Hungarian translation ("Egy Gyűrű mind fölött") be used then?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SzabCsaba9

Ez magyarul szó szerint nem azt jelenti, ahogy Göncz Árpád annak idején fordította, nem kellene ezzel szivatni, félrevezetni a tanulókat!

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