"The girls give cake to all the kids."

Translation:הילדות מכבדות את כל הילדים בעוגה.

July 8, 2016

64 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LauraLipner1

could you use נותן in place of מכבד?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anachnu

And if so, would one use אל? I.e. "הילדות נותנות עוגה אל כל הילדים"? It's not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tim5602

I think it's correct, too. But then, it's הילדות נותנות עוגה לכל הילדים


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimCopelan1

That's what I wanted to write, but it didn't give me those choices in the word bank!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shivkumar0091

i answered exactly "לכל " but was marked wrong. hope DL corrects and includes "לכל " the programme. Learning from AI I guess has its associated problems !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Its-me.

This is what i wrote, and i was marked wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oluchio

Does מכבד also mean give?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/t-hero

Not exactly. The use here seems to stem from the other meaning of מכבד to honour. If I was to rephrase that more literally in non-idiomatic English it would be.

The girl honours all the children with cake.

This seems likely the origin of this use but has probably slightly changed in meaning over time or during revival to be less formal.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oluchio

Thanks for your swift and enlightening reply.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marcocanel10

THANKS FOR THE EXPLANATION!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shivkumar0091

thanks for the explanation. but is the word's orgin biblical ? It appears that " נותנות " is formally accepted word for "give (fp) ". Or is it specific to a specific form of the language ? Thanks and regards.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, כִּבֵּד means to give mainly in the context of catering food and drink to your guests or when giving a treat to someone, as its original meaning is to honour someone. The verb in the Pi'el is common in the Tanakh (like כַּבֵּד את אביך ואת אמך למען יארכון ימיך על האדמה Ex 20.12 honour your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land), but has not yet achieved the said modern meaning, although it can be linked with sacrificial gifts like זבחיך לא כִבַּדְתָּ֫נִי Is 43.23 you have not honoured me with your sacrifices (of animals)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shivkumar0091

Thanks for the reply.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/t-hero

Why is the ב in front of עוגה in this sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pumbush

It always comes with the word Mechabedot (when it means to give something, and not to respect).

מכבד ב-


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EmmaPearlm

When the prompt suggests נותנות perhaps that should be acceptable ??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Yes, but take heed that the construction changes from כִּבֵּד מִ֫ישֶׁהוּ בְּמַ֫שֶּׁהוּ to נָתַן לְמִ֫ישֶׁהוּ מַ֫שֶּׁהוּ, i.e. הַיְלָדוֹת נוֹתְנוֹת לַיְלָדִים עוּגָה


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SenorDustin

According to pealim.com the Pi'el form of the root כבד can also mean "treat" as in to get something nice and unexpected for someone. So a more literal translation of this could be: "The girls treat the children with cake."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArtSighterDevian

I tap the word "give" and it did not show me others examples on using "מכבד" except by "נותן".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chanieHoff

I fail to understand why the "girls are honoring the children with cake". It's simply "The girls are giving cake to all the children" which should translate הילדות מתנות לכל הילדים עוגה. Your not honoring anyone with food when it's a part of a meal at camp, snack at school, a trip etc. This translation מכבדות should not be the only translation allowed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

I think this is a cultural reference, which is why it causes confusion to a lot of people. In this case נותן and מכבד are translated the same way into English, because English doesn't have a better translation for מכבד in this context. There is a subtle difference, because מכבד implies that it's not just an "ordinary giving" of something, but that the person does indeed want to honor somebody and share something with them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dovbear57

So how about "the girls serve all the children with cake"? (or serve cake to all the kids)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

I don't think so. Serving is a different thing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AveryTrach

Why is this wrong? הבנות נותנות עוגה לכל הילדים


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Looks and sounds fine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JudithBerman

When we were "mechubad" with food in Israel, it was under special circumstances. It may be the same as "latet" but it was offered as a snack we didn't ordered and were not allowed to refuse, and after a long chat with a nice old man we never met before and who gave us mangos. It sounds sweeter to one's ears.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Otto283955

It's always the problem with not honoring the root meaning in translations. So the translation is poor and tge origial is better and forces to think...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Ha yeladot mekhabdot et kol ha-yeladim ba-uga.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArcturusArcturus

I think its great that Duolingo gives way to so many examples of usage of the words not only in their most used definitions, it makes you think. Using Duolingo as the Only Holy Reference would be impractical as it would mislead you in a marshes of trying to learn only from.examples and not balancing it with some understanding of how the grammar works. Hebrew is not similiar to English in many ways, shapes or forms, so directing a learner at a new angle of vision of the language by forcing him.tona new and at first strange usages, can be quite rewarding. But Duolingo is no more than a training aid, a crutch for the mind, ecinomising time for you and others. You cant learn Hebrew just by approximating it to English, the sentences are constructed differently and therefore require a bit or knowledge of grammar. I can find approximations to Russian, Spanish and English in Hebrew but it does not match their constructions in its entirety, plus it has Arameic 'plug ins'. Moral of the story: Duo is an AI and not a bunch of life people, its a forum for life people too, who write the comments. Appreciate the fact that you can connect to them via Duo and they can explain you stuff under specific circuimstances of the context used in Duo. AI will never fully replace humans.... Someone will have to constantly program AI and update it as language changes, someone has to design and to redesign the semiconductors as life goes on. You will see more and more ways to learn languages for free as time goes on, and AI has found its usefull niche in it too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Geo101770

It's pretty confusing how cake goes from being the direct object of the sentence, in English, to being the indirect object in Hebrew. I had a hard time figuring out where to put the את.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dovbear57

Maybe it will seem clearer if we think of it as "the girls treat the children to some cake". Here "the children" remain grammatically the direct object -- even though, as Theresa says, the meaning of the sentence is that the cake should be the direct object -- and בעוגה, with cake, becomes a sort of adverbial phrase.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Corinnebelle

While it is interesting to learn the different meanings of כבד, I do not find the example sentence the best demonstration of this word. Would this be at a birthday party or like after the children won a game or something? I doubt that kids get very honored very often. Maybe more so in Israel.

I picture for example a far traveler coming to a place and you honor them with food and service. In the ancient middle east hospitality was everything. You would not kill the man you ate with. It is kind of like a treaty in the sense that you are giving him something of yours. Food wasn't as easy to come by back then. [There was a certain amount time one could stay with someone where you were protected.]

An example of a betrayal of this is the verse "Yes, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, has lifted up his heel against me." Psalm 41:9

When the king invites you to a feast he honors you. When you share a meal, it means more than a passing acquaintance, kind of like when you invite someone in to coffee, versus meeting them at the door, but we do not have the honor system they did. It's a modern version of it. When the king's man came to town, you honored him with best spot, best portion etc.. Kind of like the special treatment celebrities get and the rolling out of the red carpet.

I hope I expressed that right, but I did not feel anyone had honored the word with the definition it conveyed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, expressions of this kind fade and become dead expressions. Same in English, when you serve out food, you are not slaving (as Latin servus is a slave).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Is it right that כִּבֵּד means only give in the context of catering food and drink to your guests?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JuliaIsach

לכבד means both to respect and to treat sb to sth


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, I meant that you can say in English my husband treated me to a week in Paris for our anniversary, but I was in doubt whether בַּעֲלִי כִּבֵּד אֹתִי בְּשָׁבוּעַ בְּפָּרִיז לְיוֹם הַנִּשׂוּאִים שֶׁלָּ֫נוּ is correct, because אֶ֫בֶ‌ן־שׁוֹשָׁן only gave the definition הִגִּישׁ תּקְרֹ֫בֶת מִתּוֹךְ הוֹקָרָה וְנִימוּס for treating somebody with something, but I now suppose you can use כִּבֵּד for every respectful or kind present, because they honour the person given to.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AveryTrach

what is wrong with 'הבנות' ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, הַבָּנוֹת means daughters, but is often used with a light emotional touch for girls too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dovbear57

What about בחורות ? I tried that and was marked wrong, but maybe that was because I said הבחורות נותנות עוגה לכל הילדים rather than using מכבדות .?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

The word בחורה is fine. And the sentence is fine. But haven't you learned by now that if an answer is rejected, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is incorrect? It simply means it's not in the system.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dovbear57

Thanks Danny - I have learned that, in general, but my knowledge of Hebrew is still weak enough that if an answer is rejected, I don't always know whether it's just because the people who created that exercise didn't happen to think of it, or whether my version is actually wrong. That's the great value of these discussion pages


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chanieHoff

Sorry auto correction. I wrote . . .נתנות, not מתנות.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusanL732

Thanks to all for your explanations. I was stumped.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/paul.hill.

I do not see in the dictionary where מכבדות fits here. נותן I get.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, כִּבֵּד has the speacial meaning of to offer refreshments to guests, to share food or drink with someone. This expression roots in the sacredness of hospitality in order to show honour by offering food as a gift


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VivianMorr11

"mcvrot" I have as translates as "respect" not "give"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

It is always a good idea to check out the comments in the thread before posting, because this has already been discussed at lengths and answered.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OlgaMelamed

I dont understand. מכבדות is not respect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, כִּבֵּד to honour someone gained the sense of offering something in hospitality, especially to offer refreshments to guests or to share food or drink with someone.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

@Olga If you read through the other comments, you will see that Pumbush said that ב is always used with mechabedot ‏when it means to give something, and not to respect. So yes, mechabedot can mean respect, but not in this sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/4qaWqgcC

Since מכבד is translated as "giving food," is it ever used alone, without a specific reference to a kind of food as in this case בעוגה or must it always have a reference food or the word באוכל.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, without reference to a thing given, usually food, the verb כִּבֵּד mean to respect, e.g. הַבַּ֫עַל לֹא כִּבֵּד אֶת אִשְּׁתּוֹ the husband did not respect his wife.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/4qaWqgcC

Thanks. That is inferred by several answers but never answered directly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robbie57027

How does the word for respect become to give. I do not understand this at all.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Well, how does the word gentleman go from meaning a man of the landed gentry, that is a man who owns land, to put it simply, to meaning a chivalrous, courteous, or honourable man? Back in the days when you could say a man was not a gentleman without insulting him, people probably started to feel: “Surely the most important aspect of a gentleman is that he is courteous and honorable! Even if a man isn’t a member of the landed gentry, if he is courteous and chivalrous, he should be called a gentleman also”. This is one way languages change.

The short answer to your question though is that you should read the other comments because this was already explained.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

The idea is that you honour someone by giving a gift.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robbie57027

As this had not come before not was explained, it was a bit difficult to fit it together. I spoke to a cousin in israel who explained the context. Thank you


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MOHMD340

Could we use מספקת as well


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, הַיְלָדוֹת מְסַפְּקוֹת לְכׇל הַיְלָדִים עוּגוֹת the girls provide all the children with cake sounds a bit like officious basic suppliers, but describe a similar action.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/u3k44

מכבד means respect


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

It can also mean "honor". There are so many posts in here that discuss this. Read them!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterOlswa
<pre> נותן give to מכבד respect </pre>

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dovbear57

Looking at this discussion page today, 19 December 2021, the top of the screen shows me that there are now 80 comments. Probably at least 75 of them discuss the translation of the verb כיבד. If only people would read a few of them before posting, they wouldn't keep making the same point over and over again.

Admittedly there are a lot of comments in this one, but I recommend the explanations given by SenorDustin, danny912421 and JudithBerman in particular, and Teresa754142.

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