1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Hungarian
  4. >
  5. "Nem a vonatoknál állnak a kí…

"Nem a vonatoknál állnak a kínai gyerekek, hanem a villamosoknál."

Translation:The Chinese children are not standing by the trains but by the trams.

July 9, 2016

27 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ujose

Would this sentence be correct?: "The Chinese children are not standing at the trains, but at the trams."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Famolvfox

Feel free to report. They're working on it as it is only the beta version of the course.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Riccardo53403

Calling these suffixes "cases" is unnecessarily scary. Cases are for Indo-European languages, and are far more complicate than these, but Hungarian belongs to another family.

In Hungarian, PREpositions are attached after the words, instead of before, therefore they could be called POST-POSITIONS (or "postposition suffixes"). That is all.

Using Latin expressions to describe these post-positions just makes thing sound more difficult. It also feels a bit weird to me, since Hungarian is completely unrelated to Latin.

"Inessive" comes from "in esse", Latin for "to be in". "Superessive" comes from "super esse", Latin for "to be on". "Adessive" comes from "ad esse", Latin for "to be next to".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/guntunge

I can't see the scare factor and difference between learning many prepositions and learning the very same amount of suffixes. It might not be ideal to try to bend any language into rule systems of other, foreign languages that have more in common with each other, but here it seems to work great.

At least "ben" was really "in" all the time. "on" was sometimes used where i expected "ben" (or "vel") but usually it was "on" and "nál" was always "by".

You say Latin is unrelated to Hungarian and therefore should not be used to describe it, but it describes it quite nicely to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregWood15

Also Hungarian postpositions behave slightly differently to Hungarian cases. When there are multiple nouns conjuncted with "és", then a postposition is only provided for the last, whereas they would each have required a case ending. Also some postpositions also require a case ending. To call case endings "postpositions" would create a minefield of ifs, buts, and exceptions that would be truly scary.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanaDzsana

Hallelujah! Thank you. I totally agree. I'd love to change this!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EsjaL

Standing 'at' the trains (or trams) sounds strange to me (not being a native speaker of English). What does it mean? Next to (for which there is 'mellett', though that probably doesn't exclude other ways to express the same situation)? On (for which there would be the -en/on/ön 'postposition'? And is the sentence natural in Hungarian?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

The sentence is natural in Hungarian.

How about "by the trains"? They're (not) standing outside of the trains, but close enough to touch them. Mellett is a more specific position, i.e. besides, not in front or behind.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ackerbau

Same thing as Ujose said but also children changed to kids. Is that correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vytah

"Kids" should always be correct wherever "children" are, they're exact synonyms. Feel free to report.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Babelshark42

Don't agree at all. Kids is slang, Children is not. Most languages have similar distinct words. E.g. French enfant/gosse.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SD-77

Nevertheless, both should be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanaDzsana

I disagree, kids is normal natural, everyday English. Children is perfectly fine to use, but often sounds a bit formal.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Babelshark42

Which in no way contradicts my point.

I was contradicting this: ' "Kids" should always be correct wherever "children" are, they're exact synonyms', which is patently not true.

The base word in English is "children" in French "enfants" in German "kinder" in Swedish "barn", etc. and in Hungarian is "gyerekek". Hungarian probably has informal variants like most other languages.

"Kid" is an informal variant in a different register, but should probably be accepted here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Judit294350

They are not exact synonyms. They are in different registers. You will never see an act of parliament called the "Vulnerable Kids Act".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Judit294350

No - the register is wrong. "kids" is too casual for "gyerekek". Stick to children.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KurtisLach

I just updated my app and there was only one option I could click to finish the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bogarasbanya

Csak ezt fogadja el helyes válasznak: "The Chinese children are not standing at the trains but the trams.", viszont ehhez nem minden szó áll rendelkezésre, ha a meglévő szavakból akarom kirakni a mondatot. Nincs közte "are" és "standing", csak "stand".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jzsuzsi
Mod
  • 771

It accepts both "are standing" and "stand", so if only stand is offered, you can build a sentence in present simple.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mark1504

There isn't an "are" button to select in order to make the required sentence, which in any case isn't good English (i.e. "but the trams.")


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sarar365893

the Chinese kids are not standing by the the trains but by the trams. Why was not my answer accepted, kids are children


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

You answer was probably not accepted because it's not in the database yet. Please report it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Brigi60202

Why don't they accept streetcars


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Brigi, "streetcar" is a rather uncommon term, so it won't be in every answer set yet. Please report it where it's missing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregWood15

I'm wondering why "a kínai gyerekek" is not in the "topic" part of this sentence. I'm sure when Mr. D. is training us in word order, that a word order such as that would have been pinged.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Greg, it seems like the Chinese children have already been the topic of the dialogue so far, so we don't need to re-establish them as the topic.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregWood15

This "topic" is hard to get a firm grip on. Initially, I supposed that it was a reference to things already discussed in the conversation, only to find that the "topic" was a good place to introduce something new into the conversation. Now, I find that although we're discussing the Chinese children, since they have already been introduced into the conversation, they no longer belong in the topic.

This echoes my experience with "focus" as well. I supposed initially that it was where the emphasis lay, only to be later told that emphasis and focus are two different things. So I'm still a little shaky on the concept of focus (at level 5 of this course).

Vvsey referred me to an excellent Wikipedia page on all this, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_grammar#Word_order), but it needs to be read very carefully, especially that paragraph beneath the table that describes "topic" (which I felt should have preceded the table). Looking back at that page's examples of "Eva likes flowers"; it is no wonder that we find ourselves pinged when Mr. D. is not supplying the parenthesised portions :)

This is not written in any sense of frustration, but in the hope that it might help someone who has similar difficulties. Thanks.

Learn Hungarian in just 5 minutes a day. For free.