"אתמול או היום?"

Translation:Yesterday or today?

July 10, 2016

23 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Leshonim

Is the audio here OK? Because I hear "tmol" and not "etmol" (which is correct according to Forvo).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tzipity

This is the worst audio error I've heard so far honestly. Most are just ever so slightly clipped but yeah, this one sounds like half the word is missing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, תְּמוֹל [tmol] was the original form, which got already in antiquity a prosthetic vowel to ease pronunciation, but is not really used any more (cf. Job 8.9 ‏כי תמול אנחנו ולא נדע For we are but of yesterday, and have no knowledge).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

I was wondering if this is aphaeresis, the loss of a sound at the beginning of a word, which was esp. common with aleph (Qumran Aramaic e.g., אחרנין - חרנין), name אלעזר spelled לעזר.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, the loss of inital aleph happened in later Hebrew mostly in proper names like אֶלְעָזָר (cf. Fernandéz Grammar of Rabbinic Hebrew p. 13), but the form תְּמוֹל without an aleph is also attested in akkadian timāli and ethiopian təmāləm, which hints at its antiquity.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

is this the origin of the Yiddish name "Leyzer"? (Also many Yiddish names drop the initial yud: Yiddish Shaye, Sroel for example for Isaiah and Israel -- BTW, is there any historical period when Hebrew did that also?)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

‎אֱלִיעֶֽזֶר, Eliezer, meaning something like "My G-d is a help" or אֶלְעָזָר "God helped" > Lazaros/us > לייזער


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

That makes sense about later Hebrew, תודה רבה, esp. since aphaeresis of aleph is common in certain circumstances in Christian Palestinian Aramaic, Samaritan Aramaic, and Syriac, all Late Aramaic dialects. Kaufman, Akkadian Influences on Aramaic (1974) p. 60, discusses the prothetic aleph in light of Neo-Assyrian but I've never studied that language and am not sure if newer data have changed the situation. Also helpful is the CAL database under ˀtmly, ˀtml and adv. tmly. I'm still not sure whether there is just a sound problem with this Israeli Hebrew word or genuine loss of initial aleph.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JetpackBrian

I read through the comments and I still don't know if this is a real pronunciation or an audio error. This is a plausible explanation, but I'd like someone to pitch in from experience.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pumbush

You're right, I here it this way too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flootzavut

Thirded. (Or wait, fourthed?) That's really clipped, to my ear.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/webgenie

It's etmol, believe me. The audio cut the beginning off.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

Am I the only one who hears an 'n': "tmon" (or "tmono" or "tmonu")?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidKuper6

A year after your comment and I still hear Tmon


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/will_do

Absolutely. I find a have a decent ear for subtleties in new languages, but I totally hear 'tmon' here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobHocker

I know the audio is clipped, but this raises a question. Does Hebrew allow for abbreviated expression like 'Tis the season..."? Would one ever see תמול' instead of אתמול?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NoamKriten

It can be found in the expression תמול שלשום, which is a little old and means "bygone days"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeismerEsc1

Actually I hear 'tmon'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/psheri

This is the worst audio error I've heard so far honestly. Most are just ever so slightly clipped but yeah, this one sounds like half the word is missing.

he doesn't speak clearly and sound slurred

26

Learn Hebrew in just 5 minutes a day. For free.