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"Mi van az alatt az autó alatt?"

Translation:What is under that car?

July 11, 2016

37 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sherm0

I would be absolutely blown out of the water if not for these comments, both those who manage to explain the inexplicable and those as lost as I am who just keep on asking.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda38047

Plus the really good laughs. I have been taking language courses for 36 years now and never laughed as much as with this Hungarian one. Like the comments under zokni és szandál?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ujose

I don't understand this sentence. There is "alatt" "under" two times in this sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/linguafiqari

If you're saying "(Under) this/that/these/those ..." (Where "Under" can be replaced by any preposition), you say the preposition twice; once after the demonstrative pronoun (e.g. "That"), and again after the noun. If the preposition starts with a vowel, you don't need to do anything:

  • Az alatt a fa alatt - Under that tree
  • Ez előtt a ház előtt - In front of this house

If, however, the preposition starts with a consonant, "Az" and "Ez" lose their final -z:

  • E mellett a folyó mellett - Next to this river
  • A mögött a hegy mögött - Behind that mountain

Note that "Azok" and "Ezek" remain unchanged, whether the preposition starts with a vowel or not:

  • Azok belül a négyzetek belül - Within those squares
  • Ezek után az emberek után - After these people

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cupofcrawfee

OMG that's so messed up. no wonder Hungarians sound like an assault rifle when they speak.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WaltQO
  • 1075

Oh wow!!!

Thanks for the explanation.

The uniqueness of the Hungarian language.

I do not think I have seen something similar in the languages I am familiar with. It's going to be more interesting than I thought.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Foudeb
  • 2615

Thank you for your explanation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LiviaHB

AdamYoung97: What if, for example, I were to phrase, "az a fa allat," for "under that tree" or "ez a haz mellet" for "next to this house" -- would that be offensive to a native Hungarian's ear?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Imorth

Yes, they both sound wrong. "Ez a ház mellett" is incorrect but you can say "e ház mellett" instead. Unfortunately this doesn't work for the other one, so "az alatt a fa alatt" is the way to go, as Adam mentioned above.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Krisbaudi

Thank you, but that drives me again crazy. What a language!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jzsuzsi
Mod
  • 806

All of these are great, except for Azok belül a négyzetek belül - Within those squares. That should be Azokon a négyzeteken belül


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnWeber786406

I am into the third section - and I have never seen "belül" yet.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GGABI2

"Azok belül a négyzetek belül." sounds wrong for me. I say: "Azokon a négyzeteken belül."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda38047

That is why I love the Hungarian language. It is just so d.....d consistent and rule-based, language of chess players. It is quite simply orgasmic to anyone who has a grammar fetish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MilosVlahovic

Jeez! But thanks :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ray.meredith

Really useful discussion here. Thanks, everyone.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JMaxGlobal

In contrast to the excellent and complex conversation regarding the twice appearing "alatt" - I thank you all for it - I have just this to add: "What is underneath the car" is an equally good translation, in my view. I've submitted it for consideration. Curious if our little feathered teacher (Professzor Bagoly) will accept it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elloughton

I don't understand why 'What is that under the car?' is wrong. Can anyone explain?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

This may be what those double case endings / postpositions are for :)

Once you see az alatt, you know it must be "under that ....", so az alatt az autó alatt can only mean "under that car" and not "that under the car" (which, I think, would be az, ami az autó alatt van "that which is under the car").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/joemagyarul

Oh, I think I understand your question now. The reason we can tell (from the hungarian sentence) is az alatt means under that.

Remember that suffixes apply to both the demonstrative ez,az as well as the noun: abban az autóban, "in that car", and alatt is similar. So az alatt az autó alatt as a whole can only mean "under that car". If the az alatt and az autó alatt were somehow separate, then the sentence would be more like "what is under that under the car" which doesn't make as much sense.

I think the way to write what you've written is more like Mi az van az autó alatt but I am not sure if that is correct/natural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elloughton

Thanks Joe... just coming back to this after ploughing ahead, and I get it now, although this unit as a whole is quite tricky still.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/joemagyarul

Because in this case we are referring to "that car" (maybe we are pointing to the specific car) whereas in your sentence "that" refers to something specific underneath the car (maybe pointing at some object under the car)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanaDzsana

Thanks for the explanation of the two alatts! Also, I'm wondering why the translations , What is under that car and not , what is under the car.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo
  • az autó = the car
  • az az autó = that car

and similarly

  • az autó alatt = under the car
  • az alatt az autó alatt = under that car

In each case, the first az in the sentences with two of them is the demonstrative "that" (and the second one with the definite article "the", which English does not use in such a situation).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanaDzsana

Köszönöm szépen!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WaltQO
  • 1075

That's it!!! Clear as water (as the Spanish saying goes)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/magwillumsen

What about just "az az autó alatt"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

That would be wrong -- in a similar way to saying "that big desks".

In English, you have to pluralise not only "desk" but also "that", and it becomes "those big desks".

And in Hungarian, you have to put the postposition alatt not only after az autó but also after az, and it becomes az alatt az autó alatt.

If you only do half the work (only one postposition), it would be a bit as if you did only half the work of pluralising in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/miran578393

Tx exelent explanation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Melissa_I-B

Perhaps the Hungarians say it twice because they REALLY want to emphasize where things are ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scaharoni

Sorry now I understood the point


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Christa687973

Thanks to all of you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimDoyle15

My wife (a native Hungarian) said she would never say this sentence. She'd just say, "Mi van az az autó alatt?". I take it both are acceptable and maybe this example is like a "academic" way, whereas my wife's example is more colloquial?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Butka4

Why is it that car


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Why is it that car

Because of the first az.

az autó alatt = under "the" car

az alatt az autó alatt = under "that" car

Similarly: az autó "the car" but az az autó = "that car"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexPhysique

strange construction... I thought it could be more simple to write Mi van az auto alatt?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

I thought it could be more simple to write Mi van az auto alatt?

But that would mean something else -- "What is under the car?" rather than "What is under that car?".

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