"לאן אתה הולך בלעדיי?"

Translation:Where are you going to without me?

July 12, 2016

40 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Le'an ata holekh bil'adai


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/enevad

In English we would not say "where are you going to...". We say simply "where are you going without..."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gerardd88

How is בלעדיי pronounced?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/XeroStomus1

בִּלְעָדַיי bil'aday?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hsn626796

Is it related to the world בלי/בלתי ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, maybe ... a bit. The verb בָּלָה to become worn out may have provided in the sense of rubbing-off, detrition, disappearance the front part of these words and giving them their privative meaning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

Not directly, AFAIK


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

I think this is weird, going "to" , as a question. It doesn't sound right.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

(In this sentence, without me at the end, clearly there are many cases of going to... Where are you going to without me doesn't sound right). The "to" is superfluous.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Janis559500

You are correct that the sentence is better without the "to" -- I long for an older age when we would have said, "Whither goest thou without me."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Janis, methinks I apprehend thy sentiment, but hadst thou livest in an age wherein gentlefolk spokest after that manner, the words mayhap would have struckest thee not as delightful and comely; indeed the parlance would have seemeth not at all wondrous.

Marry, when I, knave though I be, mastereth my second tongue, it ceased to be exotic and was reduced to utter vulgarity to mine ear,—fie on such foul vicissitudes, forsooth!


[deactivated user]

    the "to postposition is unnecessary here, as the interrogative "where"already implies a direction. We say "Where are you going", rather than "where to are you going without me. But then, I believe that the "to", if included, should come straight after the "where"word.

    You do have the "Where to?"question frequently used. - "I shall be moving soon." -"Where to?" I think that what feels wrong is mainly the positioning of the "to"in the correction.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaryJaneKe4

    "where are you going without me?" is correct language usage for English. But I will answer how you want me to - so I can get the answer correct :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarolSimmo4

    where are you going to - is very poor English. You would not put the 'to' in it. Correct English would be - where are you going? or in posh archaic English, it might be - to where, are you going my dear, and without me? but that would not be used in modern English. the phase should be - where are you going without me?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TDrissman

    'To where are you going without me' is also correct


    [deactivated user]

      Sorry to ask , but, says who? Please quote your source. I really care to know.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RegiCorvus

      So basically: make sure you break the English rule about dangling prepositions when you answer this.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

      To those who think it’s a valid rule that a sentence should not end with a preposition, I challenge you to fix this sentence: This dress is not paid for. And don’t try to wiggle out by saying “money was not paid for this dress.”

      Edited.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

      Of course, it's a fake "rule"; and that's a nice challenge. If someone asserts that "rule", it can be fun to tease them with "Churchill’s" retort or a challenge like yours.

      However, it is just a tease, since language rules can have exceptions. And even if we had such a rule that did not allow any exception, it proves nothing to set up a false restriction by implying that the only way to convey that message and satisfy the rule is by rearranging those exact words.

      b108 rich739183


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

      Well, when I challenged those people who believe it’s a mistake in English to end a sentence with a preposition, I expected the reader to try to mentally fix the sentence in the ordinary way. For example, “That’s the rule I live by” changes to “That’s the rule by which I live”.

      In such rearrangings, extra words are usually added. I wanted readers to realize that if even adding extra words can’t help one avoid ending a sentence with a preposition, there might be something wrong with that rule.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

      I like your challenge as an intellectual exercise. It reminds me of an algebraic "proof" that 2=1, and a geometric one that a right angle equals an obtuse angle. All are challenges based on misrepresentations.

      If I had to conform to that grammar rule in real life, your challenge would be moot, because your false restriction on what I can say would not exist.
      Or, do you know of a circumstance in which "This dress is not paid for" is the only way to convey the needed message?

      Edit: I just noticed your 2nd paragraph.
      "This dress is not paid for yet."
      "You have not paid for this dress."
      "This dress? Nobody has paid for it."

      b108 rich739183


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidLiebe19

      "Where you going without me" is the better English translation and should be accepted


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

      Not as you wrote it, without "are".


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidLiebe19

      Ha! Good point. That was unintentionally colloquial.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rableshoni

      what's the difference between איפה and לאן? Both are translated as where


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

      Yes, both are where, but איפה means where, when you are asking about the location: איפה אתה עובד? "Where are you working?" On the other hand לאן means where or where to - and you use it to ask about the direction of somebody's movement: לאן אתה הולך? "Where are you going?"


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rableshoni

      Thank you for clarifying


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JetpackBrian

      Did we learn two words for without? I thought, besides בלעדיי, there was also בלי. Are this an irregular conjugation or a completely different word?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

      I looked up בלי on Pealim, and on the page where bli was given as the pronunciation, there were a lot of words under the title Forms with pronominal affixes. The first one listed was biladay, without me.

      I urge you to use Pealim and similar sites, because then you can find answers on your own and lots of other useful information besides.

      By the way, biladay can’t be a conjugation of bli, because only verbs can conjugate.

      But people use “conjugate” loosely to mean change the form of the word. In the tips section of the medical skill, #66, DL says “You can use all other conjugations of the pronoun “ל”

      = ‏כואב לו הגב

      Ko’ev lo ha-gav His back hurts.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

      It's a thicker plot than that... strictly speaking, בלי has no pronominal affixes (maybe because of the final yod, it's hard to inflect it at least in 1st person singular). There is a synonymous preposition בלעדי /bil'adey/, and it does have them. So people use the inflected forms of בלעדי as inflections of בלי; and, conversely, the non-inflected form בלעדי has lost usage and is now very formal.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

      It is a nice symmetry that both בְּלִי without and עִם with borrow another stem to form its affixed forms in Modern Hebrew. Nouns like כְּלִי or פְּרִי are highly irregular, with forms like כִּלְיִי my vessel or פִּרְיִי my fruit, so a probable original noun בְּלִי wearing out, decay may have lost its suffixed forms early when used before other nouns in a faded, prepositional meaning.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarolineTova

      What is the difference in use between Lean and Eyfo?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

      Le’an, because it has ל, has the idea of movement toward.

      In contrast, Where is City Hall is איפה בית העירייה Eifo beit ha-iriya?

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