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  5. "הם בעל ואישה."

"הם בעל ואישה."

Translation:They are husband and wife.

July 12, 2016



In any case, there's a tendency among progressive couples in Israel to use בן זוג (partner, literally "son of a couple") instead on בעל, because of the archaic and patriarchal origin of the latter. My husband, for example, doesn't like to be called my "owner", neither do I like to call someone my "owner". So he's not בעלי but בן זוג שלי.


While I'm pretty sure my wife would not want to call me her lord, I don't think she would want to call me her son of any kind either.


Using בן and בת is pretty common in similar expressions in Hebrew, and it means basically a person, not a son or daughter. E.g. בן משפחה is a family member, בן אדם is simply a person, etc.


But, of course, that is only true in the same sense that בעל is not owner or lord.


Also, she wouldn't be calling you her son, you'd be a "son of a couple" and she'd be a "daughter of a couple".


"son of" is used figuratively to mean "member of" or sometimes even "owner/holder of".


Wouldn't I be "her son of a couple" and she "my daughter of a couple"?


the translation "son of a couple" is literal, בן זוג actually means "partner".


What if they came from a one parent family?


Well, even if you grew up in a מִשְׁפָּחָה חַד-הוֹרִית, you are not born by parthenogenesis.


Well. It is only playing with words. Modern בן זוגי behaves to his אישה much worse than it was common when he was בעל... The movie The war of roses were unfortunatelly too realistic... :-(


it is wrong saying that בעל is lord or owner, those are two different roots, although both are ב.ע.ל (and it does come from בעילה, not בעלות), it's like there are a few different ד.ב.ר roots... either way there is also רעי the masc form or רעייתי (though really archaic and probably no one will understand you), and of course אישי. btw, according the Bible, it is much more correct to say אישּי than בעלי, as it is written "וְהָיָ֤ה בַיּוֹם־הַהוּא֙ נְאֻם־יְהֹוָ֔ה תִּקְרְאִ֖י אִישִׁ֑י וְלֹא־תִקְרְאִי־לִ֥י ע֖וֹד בַּעְלִֽי׃" ("And it shall come to pass on that day, says the Lord, you shall call [Me] Ishi, and you shall no longer call Me Baali." Hosea 2 18. Jewish Bible)


The form רעייתי is accompanied by the דודי partner, as far as I can recall.

The verse you gave with אישי does not prove correct usage - they are synonyms.


the word רעיה comes from The Song of Songs (and there are doubts whether it refers a married woman or not) either way, as there a masculine form to this word "זֶ֤ה דוֹדִי֙ וְזֶ֣ה רֵעִ֔י" (chapter 5 verse 16), and based on the fact that רעיה has taken root in the sense of married woman, it shall mean a married man. plus, when The Academy been asked to renew another word for "husband", they noted that there are indeed alternatives in the Bible - "רֵעִי" and "אִישִּי".

About whether it is more correct to say "בעל" or "אישּי", it is not reflected in the verse itself, but it is discussed in this chapter that the word "בעל" is more in the physical sense while "אישּי" directs full proximity (physical, emotional, mental, etc.) between the partners


These are definitively words from the same root בעל "to be master". בְּעִלָה "cohabitation" is a late, post-biblical formation, the verbal noun of בָּעַל "own, rule over, have sexual ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤".


This is interesting!

"Ba'l" (Beth/Ayin/Lamed) means "husband" or "lord", the same with Arabic "Ba'l" (Ba/Ayin/Lam).

In Hinduism, Sanskrit "swami" means "lord". In Bengali, this "swami" has dual meanings, "lord" and "husband".

In my language (Malay), "swami" transformed into "suami", meaning "husband".

In Khmer and Odiya language, "swami" is also "husband"!

This is probably how an ordinary man by tradition become corrupted to be "unintentional false god" by the later generation! That's why learning language is important! :)


I think you may have the semantic change reversed. Gods referred to as Ba'al are quite ancient. I think it most often refers to Ba'al Hadad, the lord of storms, but it was also used for El and Dagan (the fish god, related to Hebrew dg), and in Carthage referred usually to Ba'al Hammon.


Yeah, I know. Baal is also a Babylonian god but can't there be any possibility that there's actually a corruption of language there? Probably more ancient than that.


I'm not sure what a corruption of language might be, but the word Belu is attested in Akkadian with the meaning "lord" and already applied to gods like Marduk. The Northwest Semitic (Hebrew, Ugaritic, Aramaic, Arabic) Ba'al is also used both for human lords and for gods from its earliest attestations.


Oops, I guess Arabic is not Northwest Semitic, but is quite closely related now. It appears now there is a proposed Central Semitic that includes the Northwestern branch and Arabic.


I imagined the lord used in Ancient Egypt too, although referred to gods and goddesses, actually meant the normal people with exaggeration of their wisdom or strength or beauty.


I think you are referring to Euhemerism, the theory associated with the Hellenistic writer Euhemeros, that all gods originate in memories of great leaders of the past. I'm afraid the evidence is against Euhemerism, at least as a universal explanation. Certainly a deity here or there might at one point have been a person, but that is not the case for the majority of them.


Actually the Baal as husband and owner has a very simple explanation.

In old cultures (which I guess their authontic relics in the not far oriental world are the Hebrew, Hindies and Arabic) when a man wanted to wed a woman he had to buy her from her father, then becoming the owner of his newly wedded wife.

I believe that the god name Baal is just a coincidence.


it is not fully correct. although in Hebrew, as it is a Semetic language, there are roots-pattern of consonant that demonstrates the connection between all different forms of the same word; there are exceptions - the homonyms roots. those roots have several provisions that the instructions semantic or etymological connection between the instructions is not certain. the different provisions of the root will considered as independent roots. they have the same letters but have different meaning. ב.ע.ל is an homonym root. one of those roots is related to cohabitation (בעילה), while the other is related to owner‏, master (בעלות‏‏‏‏) I assume there is connection between Fertile Crescent God "בעל" as he is the god of thunder lightning and rain, in other words - earth "fertility". maybe this is also why master ("Lord") called in Hebrew בעל. given that the Fertile Crescent is the original origin of the Jews (the 1st hebrew - Abraham came from there), this influence is certainly not surprising. the same goes for Arabic. about the connection with south Asia an Oceania, I assume it is through the Indus Valley Civilisation and the strong trade relations the Portuguese Empire had with the Ottoman Empire. I would have continuing if it wasn't beyond my abilities in English... :S


What is your native language?

In our tradition, Abraham does come from there but he was this one rebellious young teen towards the idols even though his father himself was an idol maker. So saying 'the influence is certainly not surprising' is really a theory, the same as what we believe. So it depends on what we (generally) believe or assume too in this case.

And Abrahamic faiths do not really start from Abraham as we all believe in the same Adam, Noah, etc. It meant that in Abraham's time, this faith started to diverge into Judaism and many years later Christianity, and then Islam from Ishmael's descendants. Before Abraham, it is still the same God so this 'fertility god' came later but yeah the influence is so strong and that's why people can't take an 'invisible God', and Since Baal was made into an idol to remember him, the descendants (who don't understand the idol as a remembrance) started offering food and later worshiped. That's why one of the commandment sent to Moses is 'don't make idols'.

But we believe in the same God as Adam preached to his children.

Now this is taking too much space for a post.


In Hungarian there is "Úr" meaning "Lord" , and husband as well, but it is not used these days any more in the cities. 30 years ago my grandmother called my grandfather this way and sometimes even I call my husband like that, but modern women never call their husbands "lords " . But we use the word "urak" (lords) for "gentlemen " and "bosses".


And you might call someone Kovács úr, as well, right?


Lord and woman? As long as he is not the husband of flies, I suppose.


"Lord of the flies" was translated to בעל זבוב (Beelzebub) because that's the name of the god in the Bible. It probably has to do with the meaning of בעל in Hebrew, which is either husband or someone who owns something (בעל ניסיון is someone who has experience, for example).

Anyway, בעל ואישה is so common that there really is just one way to translate it in my opinion, even if both אישה and בעל could mean other things separately.


I have never made the connection with Beelzebub and בעל זבוב! Well, I shall never forget either of those words now. I didn't realise it was so literal.


Indeed. To someone who, up to now, has only been familiar with the Biblical terms, though, it does sound quaint.


"They are man and wife." is a common way to phrase this in English... but sadly this translation isn't accepted...


Can one use "איש" to mean husband? And if yes, how common it is in everyday speak?


Well, some follow Hos 3.18 in thinking this to be a more egalitarian term: ‏והיה ביום ההוא נאם יהוה תקראי‏ אישי ולא תקראי‏ לי עוד בעלי And it will be in that day, says YHWH, that you will call me my husband and no longer call me my master, in which verse Rashi identifies בַּעֲלִי with אַדְנוּת authority and יִרְאָה reverence, but אִישִׁי with אַהֲבָה love and חִבָּה fondness.


Hem ba’al ve isha.

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