"בן זוגו עובד אבל הוא לא."

Translation:His partner works, but he does not.

July 12, 2016

54 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hoshea4

It traditionally means spouse.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dplass1968

It rejected spouse..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

‏בן-זוג ben zug might mean spouse and might not, so spouse is not an acceptable translation.

Some ambiguous words must be translated with the ambiguity intact, just as you would usually translate ‏ילדים as children instead of boys because it doesn’t always mean boys.

Edited.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DL-Trolls

*ילדים

Gotcha Theresa! Can you even believe it!!?

:D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Okay okay! I’m going to start saying thank you in various languages just for my own amusement because I foresee a lot of these corrections coming up due to your vigilant eye!

Hvala vam...Thank you in Croatian...the first sound just like ח.

Btw, I’m going through all 8920 or so sentences in this course, combing through to check my comments for accuracy.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesTWils

Does בן זוג mean a partner in the romantic sense, as בת זוג does? If so, is there any reason why "boyfriend" shouldn't be accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlmogL

Yes, it means romantic partner, wouldn't do for a business partner etc.. I'm guessing boyfriend is not accepted because בן זוג implies a stronger commitment than boyfriend, for that we typically use the word חבר which is ambiguous and causes confusion and embarrassment no end. Fun! :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesTWils

Oh, I can see how חבר could be wonderfully anbiguous. I only asked, because בת זוג was translated as "girlfriend," of course.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlmogL

No, that's not consistent. They should either both be accepted or not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yarrite

'his boyfriend works, but he does not' is now accepted!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

I hear it used for dance partner without implying a further relationship. Do you consider that context inappropriate?

a91007 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeiraBatya1

I would think it's appropriate because זוגים is used to refer to couples dances.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dmitrii17683

Would you, please, advise on how to better refer to a business partner? If possible, both formal and in conversation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

Best word for "business partner" is שֻׁתָּף עִסְקִי /shutáf iskí/. And the word שותף itself is a good word for a "partner" in general, but it can also mean, for example, "flatmate" שותף לדירה.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DL-Trolls

Thanks Danny for this lesson. (For people who have never heard the term "flatmate," it's like "roommate.")


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

Not exactly. A roommate is a person you share a room with, like in the University dorms, which would be like שותף לחדר. A flatmate is a person you share an apartment with - each person has their own room. I realize people in the US may call both of them roommates, but technically that is not correct because they are not the same.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaryJaneKe4

For those learning English - "His partner works but not him." Could also be heard :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

Could be heard, yes; in the same ungrammatical way that "His partner and him work" could be heard. One also hears the likes of "Chris and me are going into business together" and "That new business belongs to Chris and I."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

"His partner works but not him" -- this is correct in American spoken English. In talking to my wife about another couple, I could easily say this sentence without any hesitation. OTOH, "His partner works but he does not" would sound very stiff in this context, although I could imagine it in a textbook on English for foreigners. It might be used in literary English, but not in (my) spoken English (I am a native speaker of American English).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeiraBatya1

But, "his partner works but he doesn't " doesn't sound stiff, and it is correct English. A win-win.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Ben zugo oved aval hu lo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

If you were taking a grammar test and wrote “his partner works, but not him”, you might be marked wrong because you used “him” instead of “he” such as in the phrase “...but he does not”.

If you were talking to a friend and said “his partner works, but not him”, it would be an unusual friend who would correct you for being wrong even if you are “wrong” in a textbook sense.

“Wrong” can mean “does not adhere to traditional grammar” or wrong can mean out and out incorrect such as the phrase “I have two cat.”

Saying “his partner works, but not him” is wrong in the first sense but not in the second sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

In many languages I am familiar with, there is a difference between the (so-called) written language and the spoken language. This discussion illustrates that well for English (American?). An author would use "and not him" only if he were quoting or imitating spoken language. It would be inappropriate to use this structure for example in a scientific treatise. (I prefer the term 'inappropriate' in speaking of usage to 'wrong'; inappropriate describes whether it fits a certain situation, wrong implies a "moral" (i.e. essentialist) judgment. -- The difference btn written and spoken feels even stronger in French. One would write "je n'ai pas d'argent" but many people would say "j'ai pas d'argent" dropping the first part of the negation. I suppose the existence of a French Academy drawing up rules tends to keep the written language stable (or static). But eventually, if the spoken language is persistent the written language will eventually follow. (We no longer write 'thou art')


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LisaBear78

Why doesn't "His partner works, but he doesn't." get marled correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

That’s almost exactly the given translation, except you said doesn’t instead of does not. It’s strange that wouldn’t be accepted because Duolingo accepts contractions these days.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/senorsmile

would people really use בן זוגו in conversation (instead of using שלו)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Val853432

Is it wrong to say in English "but not him" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

Yes, it's wrong in this sentence, although, as MaryJaneKe4 said in a previous comment, some people might say it. It's wrong because the sentence tells whether each man works; so each man is a subject of the verb "to work" and the sentence means:
"His partner works, but he does not work."
The final verb "work" is implied, and "he" is the correct subject pronoun. We could even say:
"His partner works, but not he."
However, that has a formal sound that many people won't like.

Since "him" is an object pronoun, we could use the phrase "but not him" in a sentence such as:
"I will work with almost anyone, but not him."
(In that sentence, the ending "...but not with him" is implied.)

a91031 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

I disagree. As I stated in my comment elsewhere, this is a sentence I would use without even thinking about it. Since I am a native speaker, it is not wrong to say it. Unless you wish to maintain that something which millions of native speakers would say without blinking an eye is "wrong" because it does not correspond to a rule in a grammar book somewhere. Languages evolve. Grammarians often describe the state of a language from 50 or a hundred years ago; it takes that long for them to catch on, or accept, how people naturally speak in their own time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Val853432

Thanks a lot Rich !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeiraBatya1

It depends on the first part of the sentence. Him is an object so grammatically she works but not him is incorrect but I like her but not him is correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArtSighterDevian

Does בן mean son and בת mean daughter, I was guessing it, because I was listening to hebrew pod and when a child said something like: "קוראים לי יובל ואני בן שבע וחצי" What does בן mean literaly here and in the phrase below. Can someone explain that please??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

Gabriel Cavalcante (Malo665m3ntalbr): Yes, by itself, "בן" means "son", but it can also mean "boy"; similarly "בת" means daughter, but it can also mean "girl". For example, one may call the boys in a group "בנים" and all the girls "בנות".

Be careful, though, about how you use the literal meaning of individual words in a phrase. By itself, "זוג" means pair or couple, but we translate "בן זוג" as a "partner" (who is male), not as "son of a couple"; similarly "בת זוג" is a "partner" (who is female).
It's helpful to read the other comments on interpretations of the "partner" phrase.

In the sentence you typed, Yuval introduces himself, saying his name and that he is 7½ (years old). In both of those phrases, a literal word-by-word translation would not produce a good English sentence.
To ask him his age, you may say "בן כמה אתה, יובל".
To ask Yonit her age, you may say "בת כמה את, יונית".
And if she's 7, she'd answer "אני בת שבע".

b00302 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaryJaneKe4

where is the "his" in this sentence? don't we usually use שלו for that? How would I know if it's - The partner works or His partner works??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

The "his" is the letter vav at the end of the word "zug": "זוגו". It works the way "שלו" does by adding vav after "shel" "של" to change "of" to "his" ("of him/his").

a91012 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeiraBatya1

I translated it as "a partner works...." implying it's a business partner. Is that wrong? And why is there no "שלו"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

No, that is not correct. It's "his partner" not "a partner". בן זוגו is the same as בן הזוג שלו. Note the vav in זוגו - it implies possession - "his".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kyria961833

I said, "His husband works but he doesn't, " and it was not accepted. I think it should have been.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arimk

Yes, there's not really a meaningful difference between "[implied male] spouse" and "husband" in my opinion. Both should be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JetpackBrian

"Spouse" is a mistranslation. "בן זוגו" means boyfriend, male fiancé, or husband.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

What do you mean it's a mistranslation? Spouse is the gender neutral form and specifically male spouse is husband. They mean the same thing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JetpackBrian

I was really confused because Duolingo teaches people that "בן זוגו" means spouse and I had to read through a lot of comments to learn what a בן זוגו really is. "בן זוגו" specifies gender and not marital status. "Spouse" specifies marital status and markedly does not specify gender. In my speech, "spouse" is less natural than other alternatives that match the definition better, like "boyfriend", "husband", "partner", and the informal "man".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OlgaMelamed

why his partner is working is not accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

You have to give us your entire sentence for us to help you spot a potential error.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeiraBatya1

If your whole sentence is "his partner is working but he isn't " it should have been marked as correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jeftakels

Does this only refer to romance or can this also mean in a school project for example?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

Romantic partner only.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

I beg to differ. I use it a lot in contexts such as school project, couple dancing, pair yoga exercises, and playing bridge.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeismerEsc1

They are talking about two spouses


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Doreen770491

It's rejected... But not him

Learn Hebrew in just 5 minutes a day. For free.