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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carpelanam

Latin for Duolingo: Demonstratives, Lesson 2

Salvete omnes! Welcome back to Latin for Duolingo. This totally unofficial series of Latin lessons has been going on for over a year now, as we wait for the noble classical language to make its way into the Duolingo incubator. If you would like to catch up with previous lessons, you can find a directory of lessons, a classified vocabulary list, and Memrise courses at these links:

(If you want to skip the grammar, please feel free to jump to the sentences below and try them out).

In this series of lessons we’re looking at the Latin demonstrative forms “hic/haec/hoc = this (these)” and “ille/illa/illud = that (those)”. Last lesson, we learned the demonstrative pronoun forms used for nominative and accusative cases. This time, let’s look at the genitive (possessive), the dative, and the ablative. It may be a little easier because Latin does not always differentiate between genders for these cases. Check here for a table of the demonstrative pronoun forms. Here is my attempt at just the forms we’ll be practicing today:

Genitive Forms:
huius (hujus)(m/f/n) = of this || horum (m)/harum (f)/horum (n) = of these
illius (m/f/n) = of that || illorum (m)/illarum (f)/illorum (n) = of those
Dative Forms:
huic (m/f/n) = to/for this || his (m/f/n) = to/for these
illi (m/f/n) = to/for that || illis (m/f/n) = to/for those
Ablative Forms
hoc (m)/ hac (f)/ hoc (n) = by/with/from this || his (m/f/n) = by/with/from these
illo (m)/ illā (f)/ illo (n) = by/with/from that || illis (m/f/n) = by/with/from those

picture

New Sentences
Tunica huius puellae est rosa. = This girl’s shirt is pink.
Quid est nomen illius viri? = What is the name of that man?
Habetne Marcus satis huius vini? = Does Marcus have enough of this wine?
Nonne ea est mater illius pueri? = Isn’t she the mother of that boy?
Pater harum puellarum sum. = I am the father of these girls.
Mater horum liberorum est. = She is the mother of these children.
Magistra illorum discipulorum multum laborat. = The teacher of those students works a lot.
Domus illarum feminarum magnae sunt. = The houses of those women are large.
Marcus huic puellae crustulum dat. = Marcus gives this girl a cookie.
Gaius illi puero duo crustula dat. = Gaius gives that boy two cookies.
Murus altus huic oppido est. = This town has a high wall. (lit. A high wall is for this town.)
Tria cubicula illi domui sunt. = That house has three bedrooms. (lit. There are three bedrooms for that house).
Imperator his militibus pecuniam dat. = The general gives money to these soldiers.
Tu omnibus illis places. = All those people like you. (lit. You are pleasing to all those people).
Magister his discipulis placet. = These students like the teacher.
Illis pecuniam do. = I give money to those people/ them.
De hac re cogito. = I am thinking about this thing (matter/subject).
Lucia ab hoc urso currit. = Lucia runs away from this bear.
Paula ab illo serpente currit. = Paula runs away from that snake.
In hoc oppido sunt multi homines. = There are many people in this town.
Marcus in illā urbe habitat. = Marcus lives in that city.
Cum his militibus pugnant. = They are fighting with these soldiers.
Avus meus cum illis canibus ludit. = My grandfather is playing with those dogs.
Rex de his rebus consilium capit. = The king takes counsel (makes a plan) about these matters.
Lucia pro illis liberis agit. = Lucia acts on behalf of those children.
(in) illo tempore = at that time
hoc die/ hodie (adv.) = on this day, today (here you have a glimpse at how an ablative phrase was transformed into an adverb)

following are some real-world Latin quotes you may have seen
pro hac vice = for this occasion only (in legal Latin)
In hoc signo vinces = In this sign you will conquer (from Constantine’s vision of the cross)
ad hoc = to this; addressing a specific issue or problem

Once you master all the various forms of the demonstrative pronouns plus the “regular” 3rd person pronouns, you’ll see some instances where a Latin passage can use hic, ille, and is to describe three separate entities, with much less confusion than would occur in English when pronouns conflict. For example, Hic ei librum illius dat. = He gives him his book, or, Marcus gives Gaius Henry’s book. Just a little different: Hic illi librum suum dat. = He gives him his book, or Marcus gives Gaius his own (Marcus’) book. I don’t recommend these sentences for the beginning level, but think of them as a teaser for intermediate/advanced Latin syntax!

As always, I enjoy creating these lessons and hope they are helpful. Please leave any comments or questions in the comment section below. Valete et bonam fortunam!

Next Lesson: Occupation 1

July 12, 2016

7 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zsocipuszmak

And just to be sure: 'Hic illi(/ei) librum eius dat.' = '(He gives him his book) Marcus gives Gaius his (Gaius') book.', right?

July 13, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carpelanam

If it's "Hic illi librum illius dat" or "Hic ei librum eius dat", yes. With three different pronouns involved it would seem to indicate three separate people, and of course you would expect them to be introduced in previous sentences. I don't recommend including sentences like these with the Memrise course; there would just be too many confusing aspects and you need the set-up sentences, which I didn't write, to understand the context. Here's an example from Henle Latin of ille/hic being used to mean "the former/the latter": Apud Americanos Lincoln et Washingtonius plurimum laudantur. Hic enim rem publicam instituit; ille vero eam non sine labore conservavit. = Among Americans Lincoln and Washington are praised very much. For the latter (Washington, mentioned later in the sentence) founded the Republic; but the former (Lincoln, mentioned earlier in the sentence) preserved it, not without effort. I think sentences like these go beyond the fairly simple syntax that works well in Duolingo, and would frustrate most learners. If I do include them at a later point, I'll have to work hard to come up with really clear sentence examples.

July 13, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zsocipuszmak

Oh of course, I see now :) Thank you for the clarification. I'm not going to include these in the Memrise course, but I just like these extra infos and examples at the end of the lessons :)

Also a suggestion: have you tried inserting the tables as pictures? I know it works in comments, and I guess it would in the original posts as well, but I never made one, so I'm not sure. If it works, you could just make a screenshot, upload it to imgur for example and insert it in this format - without spaces:

! [Picture] (http://i.imgur.com/ztJi08e.png)

Picture

July 13, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carpelanam

I hereby appoint you my graphics tutor/editor! I'll see what I can do but any graphics are difficult for me. I usually just find a link to a site that has decent graphics and spend my main energy writing the lesson content. I'll need to get familiar with imgur.

July 13, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zsocipuszmak

It's really not as difficult as it looks, but I can give you a detailed step by step guide if you like. Or if you prefer, after each new lesson you publish and there's a table to see, I can create the picture, and give you in the comments the string to be inserted and you just have to edit your post and copypaste the one line I give so that the table shows up. (I can also give such links to older lessons for the benefit of newcomers, if you wouldn't mind editing those posts)

July 14, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carpelanam

Awesome, I think it worked! Your explanation was perfect. And the graphic is perfect as well. Thanks so much!

July 14, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zsocipuszmak

You're welcome :) Just let me know if I can ever help with anything else.

July 14, 2016
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