"This comes through hard work."

Translation:זה בא על ידי עבודה קשָה.

July 12, 2016

25 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnaLowenstein

This sentence had already appeared in a Hebrew to English translation, and it used דרך. But now this time instead of דרך it used על ידי. As far as I can remember, this construction (על ידי) has never been used before. So how do you expect learners to recognize it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dplass1968

Welcome to Duolingo where they do this all the time...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zion11dotcom

zeh ba al yedéi (derekh) avodah kashah


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Pealim says yedei. If a shva is under a first letter and that letter is one of these: מ ל נ ר י, then the shva is sounded as eh. (My mnemonic is “malnourished”).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zion11dotcom

you're right as usual, so i edited it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zivke1

What's the difference between דרך and על ידי ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, sometimes they seem interchangeble, but דֶּ֫רֶךְ by means of doesn't combine with people, and עַל יְדֵי is strongly associated with the agent in a passive sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agatha229532

I would say: the first means "by the way of .... (a particular method)" and the second "by the hand(=activity) of .........." .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zivke1

That implies that דרך would also be correct here, or not? It's not a passive sentence and there's no combination with people. So דרך even sounds more logic to me. Is there any difference in saying זה בא דרך עבודה קשה and זה בה על ידי עבודה קשה?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, דֶּ֫רֶךְ עֲבוֹדָה קָשָׁה is a fine, idiomatic expression for it. But I see no essential difference of meaning, if one says עַל יְדֵי עֲבוֹדָה קָשָׁה.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArcturusArcturus

I think דרך os an adverb here and means "by the means of" . It is interesting that על ידי is used here, because it shows a particular relationship when the two objects in the sentence change which one of them affect which one, without loosing central concept of what was said. Example: מיכאל כותב אגדה Michael writes the folk story. האגדה ניכתבת על ידי מיכאל The folk story is being written by Michael. While in both cases Michael is the cause and the folk story is an effect of his actions, second example is more literature way to say something and is a higher Hebrew you will probably not hear on the streets. Definitelly above the level of what have been studied so far.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agatha229532

Thank you for broadening the subject. It inspired me to search further: Al yedei literally means "by the hand of..." ("yad" = hand) it is often used in Tanakh.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/evelyn3981

Can one not say, also, זאת בא מעבודה קשָה? What is the incorrect part? זאת ? Or מעבודה?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dsjanta

If you use זאת you also need to make the verb feminine - באה. But, from what I understand, generally, masculine זה is used for general statements such as this.

Also מעבודה means "from work" or "of work" (for example אני לא מפחד מעבודה קשה - I am not afraid of hard work) which is not what the sentence says, therefore it's not correct. It says "through work" which in Hebrew is דרך עבודה or in this context I think בעזרת עבודה might also work, but I haven't tried it so I don't know if it's accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BarbaraTru946845

What is the difference between בא and מגיע?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

בא - come

מגיע - arrive


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shuki25

Can't we also say זה בא בדרך עבודה קשה? In what situation do you say it without the ב prefix?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sam.eckmann

Saying בדרך isn't grammatically correct here. בדרך means "in a way", "in the way (meaning method), "on the way", "on the road", etc. דרך in this case means "through", for example: היא מבינה דרך מוסיקה - "she understands through music". If I wanted to use בדרך in this sentence, it would be היא מבינה בדרך מוסיקלית - "she understands in a musical way". In the selfsame way, if we wanted to use בדרך in the sentence above, we would eliminate the word עבודה, and leave only the adjective - זה בה בדרך קשה. This would give us a different meaning altogether - "this comes in a difficult way".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

Are there other cases of Hebrew nouns being used as prepositions, or is דרך unique?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, I think there is a strong tendency for nouns being used as prepositions not to use them as the original nouns: עֵקֶב due to or סָבִיב around for example are never used as reward or sourrounding.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agatha229532

Very interesting, thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robbie57027

I get lost on grammatical explanations but the alternate for road had nit been given.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, דֶּ֫רֶךְ in the meaning by means of should be acceptable for this sentence.

Learn Hebrew in just 5 minutes a day. For free.