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  5. "מי שעושֶה את זה, אנחנו עוזרי…

"מי שעושֶה את זה, אנחנו עוזרים לו."

Translation:Whoever does this, we help him.

July 13, 2016

26 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elithebird

This is such a terrible sentence in English. It should at least accept one of the two alternatives I entered which were marked as wrong:

  • Whoever does this, we help.

  • We help whoever does this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Larry824711

The problem is this really requires a future tense, "we will help him", but DL isn't ready to introduce that yet.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lV628

Sentences that sound horrible in English may sound just fine in Hebrew


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/avipars

doesn't make sense


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dmitry_Arch

It means "We help anyone who does this" - this should be the proper translation. Unfortunately, quite a few English sentences suggested as translation in this course are either ungrammatical or use inappropriate vocabulary.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TobyKing18

Doesn't accept the gender neutral 'them' as answer


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jelly1586

While I agree with the use of they and them as neuter pronouns, I'm not sure this change has been fully accepted into the English lexicon...much less as an accepted translation on duolingo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PiperDeck

Singular 'they' is not a change, it's been used in English for hundreds of years. It should be accepted by duolingo, period.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hearttolearn

This is what I put as the translation, "who does this, we are helping him", I was marked as wrong, can someone help me out as to why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ariperk

The correct translation of "מי ש..." is "Whoever is" not "who is"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dmitry_Arch

"Whoever" without "is".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/drincade

Sentence doesn't make any sense in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dmitry_Arch

The literal translation is "He that does this. we help him (= Whoever does this, we help that person)". In sentences like this one, "he" means "whoever" and may refer to a person of either gender. By the way, that is the reason why "he who" is used in the traditional translations of the Bible.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nathanlipp6

PUT YOUR MOUSE ON זה TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS HAHAHAHA


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yana846101

Is "him" the only proper way to say this in Hebrew? It doesn't consider gender neutral pronouns in such cases, does it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dmitry_Arch

Hebrew doesn't seem to have gender neutral pronouns. Whenever the person's sex is unknown (e.g in the case of מי), the מי correlates with הוא.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Why isn't the direct object marker needed for mi/who? It was needed before when the sentence said something like: whomever we hear.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dmitry_Arch

The only direct object in the given sentence is זה and it has the appropriate marker את. The object of the verb עוזרים is indirect (לה) and refers back to the subject of the subordinate clause (מי ש).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/krokutakrokuta

For most English-speakers, when the gender of an individual is ambiguous, the gender-neutral "they" is usually used. While I understand that "he" is a more direct translation, "we help them" for the second half of this sentence should be an accepted answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

It's not ambiguous. It's lo. Which is singular.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/krokutakrokuta

Yes, I understand that "לו" translates literally to "[to] him", but the use of "whoever" implies that the statement could apply to any person regardless of gender. Because Hebrew has no way to account for this ambiguity, the masculine "לו" is used, but in English, "them" (in the singular sense) sounds more natural - although admittedly, the structure of the sentence in general sounds awkward in English anyway. Point is, while "him" is obviously 100% CORRECT and a more direct translation, "them" should also be an accepted answer because it better reflects speech-patterns common to most English-speakers without deviating from the sentence's original meaning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Here is an example of the use of the gender-neutral “they” from John 3:3 in the 2011 New International Bible. Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.” This usage is jarring to those of us who were taught that “no one” is singular, and because “they” is plural, these don’t match up. So the people at Duolingo are probably old school.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenHueb

Aside from being awkward, I think this sentence is in the wrong exercise. Previous usages of "ש+" in this section were for the addition of independent clauses, but this question seems to be using "ש+" for a relative clause.

Not that I don't mind learning new things, but I thought that might be helpful to know.

...And cue me seeing a bunch of the same type of questions in this section of the exercise.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zulu734872

Whomever is a formal word for whoever when it is the object of a verb or preposition, so a word-for-word possible translation could be whomever does it we help him. A bit unnatural, though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jayantshaq

I think your suggested sentence is incorrect, not unnatural. "Whoever" is the subject here, not the object, since they are the person doing something. It is true that they are also the person "we" are helping, but that clause has its own object, "him". Even if the clause did not have its own separate object, such as in "We help whoever does it", the role of a subject would I believe be given primacy over that of an object, and the use of "whomever" would be wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

They fixed it. They apparently they have different uses.

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