"אני די עייף."

Translation:I'm quite tired.

July 13, 2016

51 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

I think, the adverb should be pronounced in its construct form דֵּי here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/senorsmile

yep, that's how I learned it.

dai = enough! dei = quite


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DL-Trolls

Thanks. This is why I entered this thread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Leibel94

would "I am tired enough," be correct as well? As in, "I am tired enough to leave the party."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/airelibre

That would be מספיק עייף.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlmogL

Actually, in older Hebrew I think this would work?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Leibel94

It's funny because my preliminary knowledge of Hebrew is from studying the Bible and Talmud. I often find myself using ancient Hebrew terms. I'm learning though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlmogL

It's not even biblical, I believe people use די in the sense of "enough" as late as the 1950, at least in writing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeiraBatya1

Yes. And as far as I know יותר מדי means too much, or, literally, more than enough. I don't think of quite as meaning enough, but a fair amount of. But I'm not British.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/7azaqEl

Same! like I keep accidentally thinking "דבר" is both "word" and "thing" when in Modern Hebrew it's just "thing" except in expressions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ana_Leia

I think these situations are pretty common for us using this course. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BillDe

Nonsense. Kids and their parents say it all the time today with the meaning of enough.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Yes, but only as an one-word exclamation די! = "Enough!". The discussion here is using it when quantifying something.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lulubeck

I usually say, "I'm really tired."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/airelibre

Well that is different: אני ממש עייף

די
which here should be pronounced "de" not "dai", since that is how everyone pronounces it colloquially, means "fairly, quite, pretty".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

Is that a British quite (meaning "a little") or an American quite (meaning "a lot")?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

I think it means somthing like "fairly tired", which would make it ... a British "quite"? I had to read about it here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/airelibre

There’s no such thing as an American and a British “quite”. Both senses of the word can apply depending on the context and the intonation the speaker uses. Eg. It’s quite good. Vs It’s really quite good.

Anyway, I’d say that in Hebrew de leans more towards the “a little” side, while lemadai למדי is more on the “substantially so” side.

הוא די טוב He/It is good, but not great.

הוא טוב למדי He’s really pretty good.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

In American English "quite" is an intensifier, period, often with overtones of surprise. "It's quite good" means "it's very good" or "it's surprisingly good", not "it's OK but I've seen better". So that would be למדי and not די, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VforBBforV

It depends entirely on social background. Upper class people would mean "very tired" if they said "quite tired". It's all in the inflection, the tone of voice, even the accent. If a working class person says they are "quite tired', then they're definitely not as tired as when they're "bloody knackered", or as Australians might say, "bushed". When I visited the States, everyone had a different phrase they wanted me to say, from "I love a pint of warm beer" to "Bloody hell" (this was the phrase I was most asked to say, by complete strangers on the street. I asked someone if I could ❤❤❤❤❤ a fag off them, which is Manchester dialect, and the person I asked thought I was asking if they could help me find a male escort service! I was just asking if they had a spare cigarette. Oh, the trials of my misspent youth haha, but I do find slang fun and it would be great if at the end of this course there could be an add-on slang section.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KateJudd1

When my husband's daughter married her English husband, he would tell her the food was "Not bad", and she was insulted. Once he told it was "Not half bad". Come to find out, in England this is high praise...Quite seems to be the same sort of usage difference...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Yes, in German there is the same attitude of nicht geschimpft ist genug gelobt ("not having scolded is enough of praise"). Nicht schlecht ("not bad") is a compliment that you have not failed in your task :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VforBBforV

Haha Duolingo has censored a word that I didn't even know was rude! I'll leave it up to your imagination, then...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

I beg to differ. I don't think there is a difference in meaning between די and למדי, except that למדי is formal so seen more in written texts. I think the intention for both can vary just like you describe in English, depending on context and tone.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariel407772

Thanks for this, I've been confused because in my American English, "quite tired" and "very tired" are exactly synonymous, but it seems like די actually means "a little" or "rather." I didn't realize the British use "quite" that way, now it makes more sense


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeiraBatya1

In American English we would said I'm pretty tired, or I'm very tired.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dov360473

DL didn't accept "I am so tired." Does "so" mean more than די would suggest?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, "so tired" would be כׇּל כָּךְ עָיֵף, but the difference to "fairly tired" is, I suppose, rather fine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dov360473

It is, perhaps, nuanced, but I appreciate knowing the difference. Thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VforBBforV

"Quite" has more than one meaning, at least in the UK. In Formal English, being "quite tired" would emphasize the tiredness, meaning very tired, whereas in less formal English, it would mean a little bit tired. So, "so tired" would be a more formal meaning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

At least in Hebrew there is a stark difference of tone. אני כל כך עייף leaves no room for doubt, you're making it absolutely clear that you are tired to the point of miserable. אני די עייף softens it by, by a little or by a lot, depending on context and tone.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ThomBoye

Mnemonic: "Die"="quite dead"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

The moderator airlibre said that די is pronounced de, not dai, when it means rather.

The voice actor says dai, but maybe that’s the ultra correct pronunciation, similar to “perfectly” in English. Usually we don’t pronounce the “t”; the last two syllables sound like “fikli”.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

@Theresa: Is this a regional thing? Even Wells Pronunciation Dictionary, who usually lists a lot of regional pronunciation, says nothing about perfectly dropping its t as a general habit. Of course there is t-elision in rapid or casual speech, like for many in compounds, like postman, or inside a word, like lunch, often when -ft- or -st- is followed by another consonant, but less common for -pt-, -kt-, tʃt-, -θt- or -ʃt-, like in next question, where it can become neks question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

I can’t cite any sources, I can only report what I hear people say around me and in media such as movies and podcasts. I don’t think dropping the t is a regional thing, and even the t-elision of rapid speech doesn’t quite hit the mark, because if I imagine a movie scene in which a woman is irritated with a man and says “I understand you perfectly”, she’s likely to speak a bit more distinctly than usual in order to get her point across but I still don’t think she would say the t. The Google British pronunciation dropped the t when speaking at regular speed, but it showed up when the slow button was pressed, as I would expect. The t showed up in the phonetic spelling. puh•fuhkt•lee.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

I'm with Theresa on this one. We Americans generally pronounce it PURR-fick-lee, pronouncing the initial "R" that the British drop and with a different vowel sound on the second syllable, but with the "T" still usually silent. Webster's lists the pronunciation as p(schwa)r-fik(t)-l(long e), with stress on the first syllable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, I do not think דַּי is here the (hyper)correct way to pronounce it. But it is a conflict of transforming an old grammatical distinction of the same word, דַּי in the absolute and דֵּי־ in the construct, into new semantic categories of adverbs, דַּי as enough and דֵּי־ as quite with lot of overlap how the absolute and the construct historically was to be used, as דֵּי־ is to be used before a noun, but דַּי is not, which is true for enough and quite as well. Because you do not see it in spelling, there will be variation in usage, like דַּי בְּקָרוֹב fairly soon, where it should be דַּי, because it is not in the construct, but followed by a prepositional expression with בְּ־, but because it means quite, people tend to say דֵּי־בְּקָרוֹב.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

I can testify that די as a quantifier (as above) is usually pronounced with /e/ and rarely, but surely not never, with /a/ as the speaker here said it.

I have to admit I'm not sure what is correct "by the rule". I don't see a square reason for it to be in construct form, since you can't introduce a של there. I do see that in some old-fashioned set phrases it's with /e/ (די הצורך, די צרכו). But do you have good citation or explanation why it should be in construct form?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

What is the meaning of ‏די הצריך, די צריך?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

The expression די הצורך /dey hatsorekh/ means "sufficient per the need": יש להם אוכל די הצורך.

Now די צרכו /dey tsorko/ is the same, with "need" declined, so "sufficient per his need": יש לו אוכל די צרכו. Of course, you can decline it per person/gender/number: די צרכן. די צרכנו etc.

Again, these are quite old-fashioned expressions. I think you won't find it in modern texts.

די צרכו


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarrettph

What does די actually mean? I've seen quite, rather, somewhat, and on the Memrise course, it's dubbed "enough".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SharonNaor

Those are actually two different words:

Enough- די (dai)

quite- די (dey- same as you pronounce the English word DAY)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Melkysmom

Except this speaker is pronouncing it as the first word "die" instead of "quite" so I am still confused about how/when to use it. I hear people use it like "stop" it's enough already!! But there is no difference in how the speaker is saying it for being "quite tired" to my ears any way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ana_Leia

Tired, but not sleepy? I put “I am rather sleepy.” And that was not accepted, I had to put “I am rather tired.” To be fair, there is a subtle difference between the two. In English “tired” can mean physically worn out and needing to sit and rest, but not needing to sleep, and it can also mean being ready to go to sleep (sleepy).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/airelibre

Close, but sleepy is equivalent to ישנוני yashnuni. Or מנומנם menumnam.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/roderra

The audio says dai, which I thought was enough and not quite (dei). But enough is marked wrong...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Yes, I too think, the adverb should be pronounced in its construct form דֵּי here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

Is there something wrong with my speaker or did anyone else hear the last word sounded like "ayesh"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Clearly an [f], not sure what went wrong, when you heard עָיֵף.

Learn Hebrew in just 5 minutes a day. For free.