In Polish, if you use "że cię kocha" we assume that the subject is the same. This man is in love with you.
If you added "on" to "że on cię kocha", it would be possible that it is the same man, but the possibility that it would be some other "he" would be high.
And obviously you could change it to say "że ona cię kocha", "that she loves you". But not here, as you'd have "that he loves you" to translate.
Thanks Jellei or Marek.(I guess both are your names) :) An excellent explanation.
Mężczyzna mówił, że cię kocha. Ja jestem tamtym mężczyzną.
Is this correct?
Grammatically correct, but:
- I'd go with "tym", if you just mentioned a man, then he is not that far.
- Unless you mean that he (you) said that a lot of times, perfective "powiedział" makes more sense to me.
could it be: This man says that you love him? this is not correct? how would you arrange the sentence to say that!
What's the difference between "cię" and "ciebie"? How do you decide which to use?
They are both Accusative of singular "you".
"cię" is a neutral form. "ciebie" shows emphasis, some contrast (for example "On kocha ciebie, a nie ją!" = He loves YOU, not her!)
'cïę' cannot be used at the beginning of a sentence, shouldn't be used at the end (unless the sentence is literally 2, sometimes 3-letters long) and can't be used after a preposition. But 'ciebie' can often sound unnatural if there's no need to put such emphasis.
OK, let's see if I've got this right.
- I can say "On kocha cię" because it's a very short sentence. I can say "On kocha ciebie" but it puts emphasis on the you.
- I can't say "Ten mężczyzna i swój przyjaciel będą odwiedzali cię" because that puts "cię" at the end of a longer sentence. I have to say "Ten mężczyzna i swój przyjaciel będą odwiedzali ciebie" or change the word order to "Ten mężczyzna i swój przyjaciel cię będą odwiedzali."
- I can't say "On stoi przez cię" because that puts "cię" after a preposition. I have to say "On stoi przez ciebie".
- The rest of the time I should use "cię" unless I need to emphasize or contrast, at least until I better understand the language.
Is that all right?
I also have a question about your example. The second part is negating Accusative, so why doesn't it change to Genitive? Shouldn't it be "On kocha ciebie, a nie jej!" or does it stay in Accusative because it's contrasting a negated object with a non-negated object?
PS: Sorry to keep bothering you! My answers aren't all already questioned anymore. :)
1st example: Well, I wouldn't say "On kocha cię". I would say "On cię kocha" (because I can avoid putting 'cię' at the end of the sentence) or "On kocha ciebie". If you can avoid putting the pronoun at the end, avoid it.
2nd example: I have to start with the wrong usage of "swój". I know that this causes a lot of problems to the learners, especially that it was taught too late. "swój" cannot really exist in the position of the subject (and you put it there), because it refers to the subject. Here you can only say "i jego przyjaciel", simple "and his friend".
Ja widzę swojego przyjaciela = I see my friend
On widzi swojego przyjaciela = He sees his friend
Oni widzą swojego przyjaciela = They see their friend
Back to the sentence itself: Yes, the first one sounds wrong exactly because of what you wrote. The second would be fine, apart from 'swój' and indeed it shows emphasis. The third sounds weird, it should be 'będą cię odwiedzali' and that would be the most natural way in my opinion.
3rd example: generally yeah, but... what does it mean? :D What you wrote makes sense grammatically, but is semantically very weird, it means "He is standing because of you". If it at least was sitting, then "On siedzi przez ciebie" actually means that "He is in jail and it's your fault" ;) Did you mean "On stoi przed tobą" (He is standing in front of you), which takes Instrumental?
4th point: yes, I guess. It's often hard to decide. Moreover, it's possible that some 'not-that-natural' answers are accepted in the course because theoretically one could almost always imagine some context with additional emphasis. But generally, 'cię' is the neutral version, so it should be used most often.
I'm not exactly sure about the reasons why it doesn't take Genitive, but I'm sure that it doesn't ;) I think it's because it's a separate clause. First you have a positive sentence (He loves you), and then you only have "not her", and not "He does not love her". So there is no negated verb, just negated 'her'.
Don't worry, I enjoy answering questions, especially ones that show that the learner really tries to understand :)
1; Got it.
2a; Thank you! That makes sense now that I think about it, but, well, I didn't think about it. Can I use "swój" as the subject if it's referring back to the subject of the previous sentence?
2b; So... like "They will you visit" rather than :They you will visit". That feels really weird... I suppose I'll get used to it.
3; Prepositions are one of my Top 3 Polish Nightmares for a reason. :) I usually either get the meaning wrong or the case wrong. I don't even remember what I meant at the time. But now we have this sentence, maybe you took the last chair so he has to stand?
I'll take your word for it. :) But... does Polish have to have all these little things that make sense if you think about them, you just have to think about them? Couldn't someone simplify it to make things easier for us poor learners trying to make sense of it all? :)
And one more question: does Tobie/Ci work the same way?
I hope my English turned out better this time. That last sentence was, erm, interesting, to say the least. :D
2a) No, you can't. There's only one usage of 'swój' in Nominative that I can imagine, but it's colloquial and I don't even know how to explain what it means, so maybe let's forget it ;)
3) Yeah, I like that interpretation :D
4) Well... languages are how they are, it's natural to the natives (usually), I don't think it can be simplified ;)
5) Yes, "tobie" is emphatic, "ci" is neutral.
6) Oh yes, it was a bit confusing, that sentence :D
Dziękuję bardzo za wszystkimi! Myślę, że rozumiem. :)
Sure it can be simplified. Just get rid of the case system for numbers and prepositions, or at least make all numbers use the same case and most prepositions be consistent, with exceptions where it really makes sense and where necessary to distinguish meanings. Then demolish aspect, and verbs would become manageable. We would be eternally grateful. :)
Yeah, good sensible English often goes out the door when I'm tired, with what result you have seen. :D
cie is (you in normal speaking ) ciebie is you in emphatic speak. I am not a polish person so if i am incorrect, that is why. i do know ciebie is emphatic
I just wrote "This man says that he is loving you", which was marked wrong. At first glance, I thought this was right, that it should be marked wrong, but now I'm not sure. Is it wrong, am I using McDonald's grammar where I shouldn't be, or is it actually right?
Why is there a comma between "This man says," and "that he loves you"? In English the comma would be incorrect.