"אתם תומכים בהם."

Translation:You support them.

July 14, 2016

31 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eykanal

why not אתם תומכים אותם?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ani_sofer

The verb לתמוך requires the preposition ב


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hsn626796

Can we say באותם ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

No, it is intransitive. You would say that only if אותם was a demonstrative determiner.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hsn626796

What does demonstrative determiner mean ? :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

This, that, these and those are demonstratives.

When alone, they are pronouns "this is great"

When they are with a noun they are determiners "this apple"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hsn626796

Can you provide me an example that shows what you said, ( that I can use באותם if אותם was a demonstrative determiner ), as far as I have understood ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

אתם תומכים באותם אנשים שבאו למפגש.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hsn626796

How would אותם act as a demonstrative determiner ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

For third person plural masculine. Them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

That would mean "you keep them up" or "are being a support for them".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Atem tomkhim bahem.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KirilMladenov

Are phrasal verbs like this one common in hebrew? Which are the most frequent? Thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

Why do you call it a phrasal verb?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, the Encyclopedia of Hebrew Language and Linguistics calls a verb whose complement is a prepositional phrase, a phrasal verb, but I do not find the definition a transitive verb useful: for me תָּמַךְ בְּ־ isn't a transitive verb, even though in English and other Standard European languages it has a direct object, but if you define phrasal verb simply as verbs which governs a preposition, well, then Brill is right of course. And if I cite this definition of a phrasel verb, the usual one, English speakers use for English: "This semantic unit cannot be understood based upon the meanings of the individual parts, but must be taken as a whole. In other words, the meaning is non-compositional and thus unpredictable", it is wholly absurd to say, that the meaning of the combination of verb and preposition תָּמַךְ בְּ־ is totally unpredicable from its parts. Your support has its force of action at a specific location! But maybe I am too deep into traditional grammar terminology...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KirilMladenov

Naftali, on your example above, does this mean "these people,who..."? I am a little confused with the translation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

Which? Can you reply directly to it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KirilMladenov

אתם תומכים באותם אנשים שבאו למפגש


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

You support those (or:the same) people who came to the meeting.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Maigret17

Is there a list somewhere to compare the words and an explanation when to use them. There is logic in this, I just don't know this logic yet. Li, sheli, oti, bi all have to do with I and me. Bahem, lahem etc. with them and they. Would be handy to compare and know when to use which one.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Probably at Pealim. I have the same problem. I don't know why it's so hard to figure out. I tried looking elsewhere first.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/srh1056

Does "support" mean both to support financially and to support emotionally?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Yes, and also ideologically, politically, scientifically (as evidence do to a theory, if you're lucky), and probably a bunch more.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NachshonB

And also structural support. I suspect this is the word's origin, hence the usage of "ב-" instead of "את" that confused some of the commentators. One can think of it as an internal strengh, even when in fact it is aid coming from outside.

(On similar note it is also interesting to consider the corelation to the root ס.מ.כ., meaning originally to lean on and developed also the meaning of trust. If something has enough תומכים it can handle more סומכים...)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nathanlipp6

HOW WILL I KNOW IF SOME VERB REQUIRES THE PREPOSITION IN HEBREW OR NOT


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, consult a good dictionary. Or failing this, pay attention how the sentences here are formed and make a mental note that the English transitive verb to support someone or something needs the preposition בְּ־ in Hebrew. Learning at Duolingo means paying attention why your solution was false, and every verb must be treated as an individual.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/abstracam

Oh, that's nice to do :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ztk123

Wouldn't this mean "you are supported by them"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

No. Only that you support them.

Are supported by = נתמכים על ידי


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JetpackBrian

I'm having a lot of trouble hearing the difference between בכם and בהם. Are they the same or do I just need to teach myself to identify the כ sound better. I haven't had to worry about it before, because ה is silent in so many words.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, they are different sounds. The כֿ has the pronunciation of the last sound of English loch [lɒx], so you may not yet be very used to it.

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