"היא ישנה אצלו."

Translation:She sleeps at his place.

July 17, 2016

54 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Obviously the parents are divorced and the little girl is sleeping at Daddy’s tonight!

What were you thinking?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jaronfi

This sentence means that she is sleeping at his place Near him or by him is written like this: היא ישנה על ידו/לידו


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alexkrule

I feel like 'at his place' is a very specific translation and there is a great degree of ambiguity here


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pumbush

What is the ambiguity that you feel?

I think this sentence in Hebrew would always mean at his place.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanielElfe1

It could be translated as "by him" which also means at his place.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tyler_Ziemer

Doesn't אצלו literally mean "near him"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

In archaic Hebrew, yes. Today it would mean in his possession/place.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pumbush

No.

Near him = לידו/על ידו


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ry2110

I thought ליד means "next to" not "near". I learned many years ago that "near/ close to" was אצל. I'm guessing that's outdated. So how would you differentiate near vs next to?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, if you want to express that someone is not at someones side, but not far away, how about הוּא קָרוֹב אֵלָיו? Or if he is realy close, הוּא בְּסָמוֹךְ לוֹ he is in close proximit to him.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MayaKapadi

I wish that were me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tom273734

Perhaps it depends also on who "היא" is. Maybe your mother in law?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimCopelan1

If הנעליים אצלי means "the shoes are with me," wouldn't this also translate to, "She sleeps with him?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Context and expectations are everything in a language! אצל has a vague meaning of proximity and/or possession. If you use it for shoes, what might you suggest? It could be "at his house", but it seems more likely, I think, that he carries the shoes with him (e.g. "I can't find Jenny's shoes! Have you seen them?" "It's OK, they are with me"). If talking about sleeping, what might you suggest? Most probably, at his house. "Sleeping with him" more strongly suggests sharing a bed, maybe sex, much more strongly than the Hebrew sentence, so it's correct not to translate it this way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/9cVv2

thank you! My thought exactly


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

No, הַנַּעֲלַ֫יִם אֶצְלִי means the shoes are at my home.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rableshoni

But that is not "הנעליים בבית שלי"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Yes, explicitly in my house is בַּבַּ֫יִת שֶׁלִּי, but I meant it as a possible meaning of the prepositional expression אֶצְלִי at my place


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Hi yeshena etslo


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chocolatandante

I used 'by him' and it was marked wrong. It means the same thing as 'at his place'. What is their problem? And yes, I reported it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/brandonrte

"By him" does not mean "at his place" in the vast majority of English dialects, so it's not considered a correct translation. For most English speakers "by him" can only mean "next to him." As mentioned in other comments above, your interpretation of "by him" is specific to Jewish Americans (maybe only NYC Jews?) and virtually unknown elsewhere.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

So wait for their answer


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chocolatandante

NaftaliFri1 - I never get answers to my reports. Do you?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

Yes, if the correction was accepted. It can take time though...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SharonGenius

אצל אמא שלו

was accepted as:at his mother

but

אצלו

was not accepted as = at him.

Why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsuj1g1r1

It shouldn't have been. "At his mother's" is the correct way to phrase this in English. Although "at his" wouldn't work either, there's no way around saying "at his place".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Why isn't with him ok?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lovetronica

Is it an euphemism?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Didi611234

Why not she sleeps at him


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Because "him" is a person, a man. And you can't sleep "at" a person. You can sleep at their place, or with him, or inside his place, but you can't sleep at people.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Didi, maybe this will be helpful for you, the webpage lists the different prepositions (in, at, with, on) to use with the verb "sleep" and how they are used.

https://lingohelp.me/preposition-after-verb/sleep-in-or-sleep-with-or-sleep-on/

23 May 2019


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bdwass

pronunciation of "with him" was bad


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

What do you mean? He doesn't say "with him". And the pronunciation sounds fine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HTIKVA

?היא ישנה אצלו How do you get this his place from this It should either mean she is sleeping with him, or she slept with him. Or show me where the hebrew word for place is!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

If you read some of the comments here, you might get a better picture, but basically the word אצל is a bit difficult to translate and it's similar to French chez that is idiomatically translated as at someone's place. Since here אצל is written with the 3 person singular masculine pronominal suffix - אצלו the best translation is at his place*.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jesusarzag4

She sleeps at Her?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

Not "at her". עצלו is "at his place".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Walter375725

In one of the exercises "אצל" was translated as "with" : "?הסוס אצלך" - "is the horse with you?" Would it be wrong to translate "she is sleeping with him" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

Yes. It doesn't mean that.

Please, make sure you check the comments in the thread before posting, because this question has already been discussed at lengths and answered.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Walter375725

I checked the comments. Most of them have nothing to do with linguistics, but are rather comments from walls of schoolboys' washroom.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

In the exercise ‏הסוס אצלך Ha-sus etslakh?, the translation was “Is the horse at yours?” not “Is the horse with you?”

You said that Duolingo accepted your translation of “Is the horse with you.” DL probably accepted it because it would be correct in this scenario: the divorcing husband and wife are arguing about the possession of the horse, the husband gets custody, and his friend then asks ‏הסוס ‏אצלך? The friend means “in your custody” rather than necessarily “at your place”.

My point is that DL accepted “with you”, but they probably shouldn’t have, because you imported your incorrect understanding of that sentence to this sentence, where “with” definitely does not fit.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Walter375725

Yes, as I said, all depends on context. If I go to a veterinary clinic with concerns about a sick horse, they may ask me if the horse is "with me". I would answer "yes he is in the trailer outside".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Right, and in Hebrew they are not likely to ask הסוס אצלך if they want to know whether the horse is just outside. Actually if they asked הסוס אצלך you may be a bit confused - do they mean whether you have it outside, or whether, generally speaking, he lives at your stables? (The context pulls in the former direction, the common meaning of אצל pulls in the latter.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarciaKaro6

In colloquial American English it would translate as "She is sleeping by him." Perhaps it is different in other English speaking countries.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanielHolb1

Is there a difference between יושנת and ישנה?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Ingeborg is correct. In terms of actual usage, יושנת is a common mistake by young children, and otherwise I think a sign of very uneducated people.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, speaking as a prescriptivist, to sleep is a stative verb in Hebrew (if you are interested in this topic you shall read this article), whose correct form is הִיא יְשֵׁנָה she sleeps. הִיא יוֹשֶׁ֫נֶת is a regularisation to the usual pattern of dynamic verbs and is sometimes used in colloquial Hebrew. It is analogous to replacing strong forms of English verbs with weak forms (he slept versus he sleeped). You may listen to this guy saying the same thing.

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