"The train is always here at noon."

Translation:Délben mindig itt van a vonat.

July 18, 2016

52 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/BAUDAISBernard

what are the rules to buit a sentence?

July 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Shamarth

Hungarian word order is very flexible, but you will get the hang of it through practice. A general rule is that the focus is on the word/phrase directly before the finite verb, or on the verb itself, if it starts the sentence.

  • "Miki egy könyvet olvas." -- "Miki is reading a book." -- neutral word order
  • "Miki olvas egy könyvet." -- "Miki is reading a book, and not someone else."
  • "Egy könyvet olvas Miki." -- "Miki is reading a book, and not something else."
  • "Olvas egy könyvet Miki." -- "Miki is reading a book, and not doing something else to it."
July 28, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/sspadaro81

That cleared a lot of doubts, have a lingot! I'm also wondering: can "van" be omitted in "Délben mindig itt van a vonat"?

November 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Julie900845

I think you can not omit "van" in this case. In some of previous lessons someone wrote the rule: "VAN can not be omitted when we say - WHERE, - WHEN or - HOW something is." Let someone from native speakers correct me if I got it wrong.

June 18, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Shamarth

Yes, that rule is valid... mostly. This is an exception that you don't necessarily need to keep in mind for now. With itt and ott you can omit van, even though they indicate location. BUT! It only works when these words precede the noun.

So:

  • Az állomáson van a vonat. -- correct.
  • *Az állomáson a vonat. -- not a proper sentence
  • Itt van a vonat. -- correct
  • Itt a vonat. -- also correct
  • *A vonat itt. -- incorrect
March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

You are right. But such is life, with triliards languages...

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Shamarth

Yes, you can omit "van" with "itt" and "ott", but only in third person singular.

November 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

It is a good question!

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Jela.

When do you use Dél and when Délben?

December 22, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/franci.bon

I think délben means 'at noon', and dél means 'noon' (nominative case)

September 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

You are right. I want to ed: dél, with small d is "noon", but Dél with capital D is South.

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Shamarth

Not necessarily. If they aren't part of a proper name, then cardinal directions shouldn't be written with a capital letter in either of the languages.

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

I think, in English is obligatory. But I may be mistaken. In Hungarian, you are right.

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Shamarth

It works the same way in English too, see 5) here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/learningenglish/2011/11/capitalisation-ii.shtml

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/VeronicaPerales

Can the word order be changed? Would this be correct... a vonat van mindig itt délben?

July 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Shamarth

At first I wanted to say that your sentence is not correct, but actually it is. It emphasizes a vonat, as if you said: "It's the train that's always here at noon (and not something else)." But in speech you would have to express this emphasis through the tone as well, stressing the word vonat.

July 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Apahegy

My initial instinct was to write "Mindig itt van a vonat délben."

Does that emphasize, ALWAYS- the train is always, not just some of the time here at noon?

August 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Shamarth

Yes, that's correct. "Mindig itt van a vonat délben" -- the train is always here at noon, every single day.

"Délben mindig itt van a vonat" expresses the same, with less emphasis.

August 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Koolkaren

Can I say "Mindig a vonat itt van délben", or does that word order just not work?

February 21, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Shamarth

Unfortunately that doesn't work.

February 25, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Andras_Gyep

Why "Mindig délben itt van a vonat" is not correct? and how are we supposed to decipher the focus on an english phrase in order to get the right order in the hungarian translation??? :/

July 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

Good answer!

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/ericashelton

I wrote délben mindig van itt a vonat. Why is this wrong?

June 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Julie900845

It has probably something to do with the combination " van itt", because I wrote "A vonat mindig van itt délben" and it was also wrong. So, I assume that correct are those sentences with "itt van"

June 18, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

That is not correct, sorry. Should be itt van.

March 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

A vonat van itt mindig délben - it is a correct sentence, but has different meaning : It is the train, not something else is here.

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

It must be : itt van.

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/NISHADTAKS

What would be the direct conversion of this arrangement? "A vonat van mindig itt délban"

August 2, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

Sorry, it is not correct. Itt van is correct.

March 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

It has an other meaning. Not a cat, not a dog, but the vonat.

March 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

See reply to Julie

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/EvanBehar

Is "Délben itt a vonat mindig van" ungrammatical, or is it just the emphasis that's weird?

March 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

Completely wrong.

March 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/EvanBehar

"Completely wrong" is not a very helpful reply; I still have no idea why it's wrong.

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

Shortly : ungrammatical.

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

Excuse me it was a bad answer. I have written: Copletly bad, without explanation. This sentence is not Hungarian. But I am only a native Hungarian speaker, not a linguits, I can not explain you shortly it . The point is that any word is not on the place, it should be. The worlds are put on the places, where they should not be. Compare your sentence with the correct solution. Your sentence has no meaning in Hungarian. But go on. I am always glad if a foreigner wants to study Hungarian. If you are English speaking, you will find many mistakes in my answer. Best.

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Shamarth

The focus in your sentence is on the verb itself. It expresses something like this: "At noon, the train always exists here." So it doesn't make much sense. In another situation, with another verb, your structure could work Compare it to this sentence, for instance: "Délben itt a kutyák mindig ugatnak" -- "The dogs here always bark at noon".

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

I have written : A vonat mindig délben érkezik. It is the synonieme of your answer. Why have you not excepted it. I am native Hungarian speaker. The arrive is érkezik, and not van, by the way...

March 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Shamarth

Én sem fogadnám el azt, hogy "a vonat mindig délben érkezik". A lényege valóban ugyanaz, ám az angol mondat szerint nem feltétlen délre érkezik meg a vonat, csak annyit tudunk meg, hogy délben mindig itt van. Ahogy írta, az arrive jelentése érkezik, de itt nem szerepel ez a szó.

March 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

Igazad van.

March 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

Shamarth, are you Englisch or Hungarian?

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Shamarth

I'm Hungarian.

March 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/mr_darcyka

"A vonat mindig itt van délben" "A vonat itt van mindig délben" "Délben a vonat mindig itt van". This is all right! :)

August 12, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

Correct!

March 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Julie900845

Why this answer is incorrect "Mindig délben itt van a vonat." ?

June 18, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

Must be itt van.

March 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/FrancescaSz

Is it also okay to say "a vonat mindig itt van délben"?

October 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

I think, yes. But there are so many acceptable versions, that the computer can't handle it.

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/RebeccaCalkins

Why is this incorrect if word order is flexible? "Délben mindig a vonat itt van."

March 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

Yes, the flexibility has some disadvantages. That is why the Hungarian is a very difficult language. As a native Hungarian I never make failure, but only a linguist can explain.

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Eli98942

Would the structure "A vonat mindig itt van délben" stress the whole part before "van"? I'm confused. It sounds most natural to me to say it that way.

March 8, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Kifike

I am not sure, but only "Délben" is stressed. But I am a chemist, not a linguist, native Hungarian.

March 24, 2019
Learn Hungarian in just 5 minutes a day. For free.