"בכל יום שבת אני הולך לבית הכנסת."

Translation:Every Saturday I go to the synagogue.

July 19, 2016

61 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gerardd88

I never knew synagogue meant "house of assembly". Apparently συναγωγή (synagogē) also means "assembly" in Greek.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pumbush

also "church" in Hebrew is Knesia - similar root


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mazzorano

You can actually say בתי-כנסת or בתי-כנסיות as plurals for בית-כנסת...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hannah649004

Is, "בתי כנסיות" irregular or something we haven't learnt yet? The notes only talk about changing the somech when creating a plural but the nismach stays the same.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

This is again an example, how modern Ivrit is a collection of the different historical stages of Hebrew. While it is now standard that only the nomens regens נִסְמָךְ is put into the plural (בָּתֵי־סֵ֫פֶר schools), the sages חַזָּ"לִים often prefered to put both nouns in the plural, something rarely happening in Biblical Hebrew (לֻחֹת־אֲבָנִים stone tablets). As synagogue is part of the religious vocabulary, this variant of the time of the sages could enter the modern language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Right. But as it happened, it didn't, or not all the way to present-day Hebrew: בתי כנסיות is out of use (I would bet for at least 100 years).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jbern011

Can I get a Shul please?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Janis559500

Duo accepts shul. I only wish they had Yiddish Duolingo (sigh).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

They are working on that (although for awhile, so who knows. I volunteered my mom ;) and she volunteered a bunch of people also willing to do both or either Litvak or Galitzianer (with or without Hebrew alphabet - most who aren't Orthodox in the U.S. use Romanization) but who knows. They even told me they could have a coffee klatch in Yiddish with words in the lessons... I think yivo offers a course or the Yiddish book center, one of the two.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

actually both offer Yiddish courses, as also many other places, such as the Maison de la culture yiddish in Paris, the workman's circle in Montreal, NY, and other cities around the world. Also several universities in Israel. One of the best and most fun ways to learn is in the intensive summer programs which take place in Yivo, Paris, Strasbourg, Berlin, Vilnius, Jerusalem, etc. (Google!)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yokhentse

יעדער שבת איך גיי צו שול


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Janis559500

I am not a native speaker of Yiddish, but I've been studying using the textbook College Yiddish by Uriel Weinreich. He uses in prepositional phrases like "going to school" or "go to shul", /in/ אין instead of /tsu/ צו. Of course אין can also mean "in" (shul means both synagogue and school). But for place names (proper nouns, e.g., "go to New York") you use the preposition /ken/ spelled /keyn/ קיין as in "I'm going to New York" /ikh for ken nyu york/= איך פאר קיין ניו יארק There is an exception for the United States. "I'm going to the United States" is /ikh for in (not ken) di fareynikte shtatn/ איך פאר אין די פאראייניקטע שטאטן


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Janis559500

Yokhentse, in addition to my previous reply to you, let me add that you need to change"every" to "yedn" (accusative of time) and put the verb immediately after the adverbial phrase "every shabbos." In most situations the verb has to be the second sentence unit. Result: יעדן שבת גיי איך אין שול. You'll find a similar sentence in the well-known Jacobs/Olshanetsky song "belz, mayn shtetele belz."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emily823504

Maybe in the Yiddish duolingo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DerAndereLerner

As far as I concerned Yiddish often uses 'beit hakness'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Most Ashkenazi in North America use shul. The first time I heard it called anything else was by a French Sephardi. I didn't even know it was Yiddish until then.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

beit hakness cannot be Yiddish, as the prefix בית is always pronounced "beys" in Yiddish (and traditional Ashkenazic Hebrew). For example one speaks of the "Beys-Yankev shuln" for a network of religious educational institutions for girls. beit-haknesset' in Yiddish and traditional Ashkenazic Hebrew would be pronounced "beys-haKnessess". Cf. the beg. of Rozhinkes mit mandeln "In dem beys-haMik[g]desh...". The final letter of the alphabet is always pronounced "t" in sephardic/Idraeli Hebrew, but in Yiddish and traditional Ashkenazi Hebrew it is only pronounced "t" when it has a dagesh (dot) in it. Similar with p/f.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rifael

Why isn't the answer "every shabbat i go to the synagogue" the sentence "i am going" is tree literal translation but not grammatically correct in English


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/airelibre

It's correct if you're talking about a current habit or a near-future plan. "This year, every shabbat, I'm going to the synagogue. The year after, maybe I'll stay home some of the time."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarrettph

Also it's Sabbath in English. Shabbat is a phonetic spelling of the Hebrew word.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/airelibre

It's Shabbat among Jews.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

For (Ashkenazic secular) Jews in my Boro Park, Brooklyn childhood, the word was always Shabbos - I have recently seen this on a Lubovitcher site as well, but in the 50s and 60s it was universal. I did not hear the pronunciation Shabbat until much later, perhaps in the university. At some point, Israel started sending shlikhim to teach in American synagogue schools, and from that point on the tendency was to change the traditional Ashkenazi pronunciation for the modern Israeli (also referred to as Sephardic) pronunciation. This even affected vocabulary as a dreydl became a 'sovivon' etc. -- The term "the Sabbath" would seem excessively formal if not actually goyish to us at that time. (Formal as in ecclesiastical usage "Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy." Not the kind of thing one would say in colloquial conversation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

PS - Note: shabbos is the traditional Ashkenazic Hebrew pronunciation. In Yiddish it is almost the same: Shabbes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

to IngeborgHa - won't let me reply directly to your question, so I do so here. One very notable difference in the pronunciation of consonents: differences that disappeared in Sephardic/Israeli Yiddish are maintained in Ashkenaz. For example: the final letter of the alphabet is pronounced "t" with a dagesh and "s" without one (Toyre vs. Shabbos); the eleventh letter is pronounced "k" with a dagesh and "kh" without in both Ashkenazic and Sephardic I believe (Koyekh vs. mikhshl; also the Ashkenazic retains the distinction between komets-alef "o" and patakh (pasekh) -alef "a". Again, the difference between "e" and "ey" (lekhem bread vs leyts[?]). BTW, Prof Dovid Katz is giving an on-line course this Spring on (and taught in) Ashkenazic Hebrew, which he speaks fluently. Google Yaaana or Workmen's Circle. I believe this was observed in the pronunciation of both Hebrew and Aramaic. But I am not an expert. My Yiddish is pretty good, but there is a reason why I am still at the Duolingo level in Hebrew.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Do you make any other systematic changes in pronunciation between Ashkenazi Hebrew and Yiddish apart from shifting the stress and restoring the vowel? This seems to be an innovation: "In earlier centuries the stress in Ashkenazi Hebrew usually fell on the penultimate, instead of the last syllable as in most other dialects. In the 17th and 18th centuries there was a campaign by Ashkenazi rabbis such as Jacob Emden and the Vilna Gaon to encourage final stress in accordance with the stress marks printed in the Bible. This was successful as concerned liturgical use such as reading from the Torah. However, the older stress pattern persists in the pronunciation of Hebrew words in Yiddish and in early modern poetry by Hayim Nahman Bialik and Shaul Tchernichovsky."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, I am a bit confused, sorry. I know asking systematising questions from native speakers is not fair. In standard Yiddish I would pronounce תּוֹרָה as די טוירע and לֶ֫חֶם as דאָס לעכעם (i.e. ברויט) and כּוֹחַ as דער קויעך (i.e. קראַפֿט) and מִכְשׁוֹל as דאָס מיכשל (i.e. שטערונג) and לֵץ als דער לעץ (i.e. וויצלער). The last is a bad example, let's take אֵל as אייל (i.e. גאָט). So Yiddish maintains the תֿ/תּ-distinction and the four different vowels אֶ, אַ, אָ (as ע) and אֵ (as יי). Don't you say the same for traditional Ashkenazic Hebrew? And don't you shift the stress of Yiddish טוירע to the last syllable, as discussed for TAH?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rBhr5
  • 1321

Just like 'go to hospital' is commonly used in Australia, so is 'go to synagogue' (without the definite article), so it should be accepted. It's like 'going to church' (not 'to the church) or 'going to school' (not 'going to the school').


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

This can also be heard in American usage.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chanieHoff

"Every Shabbos I go to the synagogue" should be correct. DL admin, you need to accept the word Shabbos. A Jew uses the word "Shabbos" or "Shabbat" when he goes to shul/synagogue on that day.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FaizalZahid

The drop-down translation gives "the Knesset" but when I entered it, it's considered wrong! :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnCatDubh

Just הַכְּנֶסֶת is ‘the Knesset’, but בֵּית הַכְּנֶסֶת is ‘the synagogue’.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarrettph

Thanks for the answer, but what is "The Knesset" and how is that different from a synagogue? I've never heard that before.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FaizalZahid

Oh, thanks! See it now! Toda raba!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Snezhi

I read all the comments on this thread and no one else asked the question that I have so it is very possible I have a silly question. If so, I apologize in advance.

In the audio I hear at the end "leveyt hakneset" which would seem to me to not have the definite article in the sentence. But the English translation says "to the synagogue" So are we adding the definite article because we think it sounds better in English? I was trying to think of some common examples and I came up with "I go to school" and "I go to the hospital" so I didn't reach a conclusion how to say this correctly in English (with or without 'the'). But my question is rather about the correct way to say it in Hebrew. Am I hearing correctly? Is the definite article missing in Hebrew? I can live with us adding it in English to make the translation sound good. I'm just not sure whether we're literally translating the Hebrew phrase or if we're accommodating the English phrase.

Thanks for any help in advance!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Snezhi

Wait, I think I got it. The definite article is there but it is in the "somech" It pays to pay attention to the tips in Duolingo :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jtx120
  • 2831

Is there a difference between synagogue and temple is Hebrew? I feel like the US they're pretty much the same.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/djzeus01

That's actually an ideological can of worms: http://www.jewfaq.org/shul.htm , https://www.quora.com/Is-there-a-difference-between-a-Jewish-temple-and-a-Synagogue. (Reform is very common in the US, but much less so in Israel.) FWIW, despite what the first link says, I've been associated with many Conservative shuls in the northeast, and in my experience the only word in common use is "shul." The word synagogue is only used when speaking to non-Jews who wouldn't be likely to understand.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hannah649004

So is it more respectful to refer to, "בית כנסת" as a temple rather than a synagogue?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Wasn't the problem that often by temple only בֵּית הַמִּקְדָּשׁ in Jerusalem is meant and שׁוּל isn't understood in mainstream?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, I think a pagan temple is called מִקְדָשׁ.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

NB - the Temple (capital T) is used in English to refer to the center of Judaism from Biblical times, referred to in Yiddish as the "beys-hami'k[g]desh", בית המקדש -- from the root קדש meaning holy. Does anyone know the correct term in modern Hebrew? Bet haMikda'sh?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, yes, from 2Chr 36.17, בְּבֵ֣ית מִקְדָּשָׁ֔ם, the temple is called בֵּית־הַמִּקְדָּשׁ. In the Tanakh the prefered name was בֵּית יְיָ, but the Jewish Sages liked to use the term בֵּית־הַמִּקְדָּשׁ, so it stuck.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

I have the impression that temple is (was?) used among Reform Jews for their synagogues, but not among Orthodox or Conservative Jews. Is that correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Janis559500

Mostly true. Although the largest conservative synagogue in my area is called Temple Beth El.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Josek_san

Does the shoresh כ.נ.ס mean to assemble/gather?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yarrite

Yes! http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/כ־נ־ס (huh, not sure what's going on with that link but you can always copy/paste)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

every Shabbos I go to the synagogue


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeahLapidus

The only word i will use here is Shabbos. That is the correct word here. Duolingo needs to correct that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

I agree with you 100%. As far as my individual ideolect is concerned. In my neighborhood (Boro Pk, Bkyn) you may catch cold on Saturday, but you go to synagogue on Shabbos (which unlike "Saturday" goes from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown). Nonetheless, if you want to be writing standard English (whether American, English, Australian or etc), you will find most non-Jews would not accept Shabbos as English. And even Jews, if they have been educated with a Zionist orientation, may reject Shabbos, perhaps even violently or sneeringly, and prefer to transliterate the Israeli / Sephardic pronunciation "Shabbat." I guess the conclusion is that it depends what community you come from and what audience you are writing for / speaking to. For me, personally, a secular Jew having grown up in Boro Pk over a half-century ago, Shabbos has a very strong emotional resonance which is not evoked by either Saturday or Shabbat.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VivekRaman7

The tips and notes say that בית which is generally pronounced as bayit becomes beyt when it is part of a smikhut. However in this sentence I can hear the pronounciation as veyt. Does it change because of the ל prefix?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Yes. Exactly. Without the לְ־ the synagogue would be בֵּית־הַכְּנֶ֫סֶת with a [b].


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sKSLU1pV

Is the ב in the beginning optional?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, yes, כׇּל יוֹם שַׁבָּת as an adverbial accusative works also to indicate the time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KarinHepne

Finally something related to Judaism I have been waiting all my time on duolingo for it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KarinHepne

They excepted shabbat!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

Do you mean excepted (made an exception) or accepted (allowed)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GabeGewurt

Why is "Every shabbat I go the the synagogue" not accepted? The DL computers are a little off


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

should be TO the synagogue

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