"I am never outside."

Translation:Nem vagyok kint soha.

July 19, 2016

61 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/smithmo147

I am getting very confused about word order here...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MessSiya

Exactly. Sometimes they seem like Japanese (SOV). Othertimes like english (SVO). Here, it sounds like XOXO. ❤❤❤??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Liggliluff

soha nem itt vagy
nem vagyok kint soha

It just feels so random. But it does accept "soha nem kint vagyok" at least, so there's that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KrisztianLaczi

Well, in Hungarian you have a relatively free word order with slight meaning modification effect of the position of the word. However, "soha nem kint vagyok" is not used therefore it should not be accepted at all. I recommend reporting the bug. "Soha nem vagyok kint" or "nem vagyok kint soha" are good solutions. You also can say "Kint nem vagyok soha" . Just pay attention that you negate "vagyok" not "kint".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

I'm not sure that should be accepted at all... if it means anything, definitely different a different thing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/weitzhandler

How about Soha nem kint vagyok?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alewyan

"Nem vagyok kint soha" sound unnatural or at least forced to me. As a native speaker I would say "Soha nem vagyok kint."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stewart288923

Soha nem makes more sense to me-like the Polish nigdy nie (never not).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KrisztianLaczi

It works exactly like nigdy nie in polish. The example sentence is unnatural to a native speaker but still grammatically correct. Duo should concider the frequency of usage not just grammar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KrisztianLaczi

Note: I would only use "Nem vagyok kint soha. " if I wanted to express my discomfort or frustration about never being outside.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Findil

It's correct, but I would expect it to continue. "Soha nem kint vagyok, hanem bent a szobában."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/weitzhandler

I take it the nem negates what's after, and in our case we need to negate the I am not, is that true?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arpad737071

"Soha nem kint vagyok, hanem bent a szobában." is not correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Findil

And why is that? I see nothing wrong with it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arpad737071

"Nem kint vagyok, hanem bent (a szobában)." is perfectly well worded. It means "I am not outside, but in the room." (You principally negate the location.) But, you would never say "Soha nem kint vagyok, hanem bent (a szobában)." In this latter case, you are principally negating the time ("soha" means "never"). "nem kint" would introduce another principal negation in the sentence, "not outside". So, "Soha nem kint vagyok, hanem bent a szobában." would be translated to English as *"I am never not outside, but in the room." Which is also unnatural, isn"t it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Findil

I guess... It makes sense the way you explained it, and I accept it as a reason to reject this translation. I can still see myself using this construction though, be it correct or not. "Soha nem az asztalra teszem a könyveket, hanem a polcra." "Soha nem a bátyámmal megyek sétálni, mindig csak a húgommal" etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arpad737071

We wouldn"t use "soha nem" with that word order in Hungarian, but rather "sohasem" or (contracted) "sosem". So: "Sohasem az asztalra teszem a könyveket, hanem a polcra." and "Sohasem a bátyámmal megyek sétálni, mindig csak a húgommal" are the proper form.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arpad737071

Since you asked for a link: An explanation in English: https://hungaryforyou.wordpress.com/2013/05/19/negation/ A detailed (and complicated) explanation in Hungarian: https://www.tankonyvtar.hu/en/tartalom/tamop425/2011_0001_536_MagyarNyelv/ch05s03.html


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Findil

Thank you. I'll go through the second article when I have the time and I'll see if it convinces me that a sentence that feels natural to me is incorrect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JulesSchul1

This is exactly how I put my answer!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arpad737071

"Soha nem kint vagyok." is not a correct word order.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arpad737071

As a native speaker, I would rather say "Sohasem vagyok kint." or even contracted "Sose vagyok kint." or "Sose vagyok kinn." (kint = kinn).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Findil

For anyone wondering: Duo's preferred translation is not unnatural nor unlikely either.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shinarit

I wrote "sosem vagyok odakint", and it didn't accept. Duo still has much to learn about Hungarian.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HarrisonGa335263

What does the word "soha" represent?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaniloMlnr

So you essentially say "I am not never outside"? that does sound a bit weird to me tho


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

Okay, I'm gonna sort of flood this until you guys have to accept it. :D
In Hungarian (and in a couple of other languages, Romanian surely but I kinda think Slavic languages work similarly), "nothing", "noone", "never", "nowhere" aren't actual actors, things, times and locations. Quite the contrary - they are the lack of these things. Therefore, them being related to an action sounds like an oxymoron. They can only involve the lack of the action. The "not-action". Just like here. "Never" is not accepted as a time for being outside. The way to resolve this issue is to say what you do is not be outside never. :P


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Martin358481

Great cognitive explanation! Thx. You definitely got my brain flushed :)

"(What I do is) not be outside ever." ...wow!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

Yeah... not sure if these sentences are worth translating word by word. "ever" and "any-words" are much less commonly used in Hungarian (since you barely use them in negative sentences and they aren't the "first pick" in questions either).
"To happen never" versus "Not to happen never" is a bit like arguing whether parallel lines meet at infinity or don't.
Anyways, by saying "the idea that something can happen never sounds like an oxymoron in Hungarian", I had an easy time since that's just how it sounds to me... "never will come in 122 years, it's a very special event when former Duolingo users leave the house" :D It's almost as weird as asking "Where are you going?" and receiving "Tomorrow." as an answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shinarit

Hungarian is not English. Double negatives are sometimes required.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Japanistan

can someone help me with "van" vs "vagyok"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zaqqwerty

"van" = it is, "vagyok" = I am


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/andremgcos

Van can also be used for ön or maga, which are the formal forma fir 'you'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ol.Bastion

I wrote, "Én soha vagyok kint." and I was marked wrong with the correct answer being, "Én sose vagyok kint." Is someone able to explain the difference between "sose" and "soha" so I can understand why this is?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dcseain

Soha needa nem. Itbdoesmt stamd onigs own. Hungarian likes multiple negatives.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrubbaFong

Wonder who is pedantically policing typing errors by down-voting? Must have a great life.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jarek791896

There is not such order in sentences in Hungarian as in English. You can make sentence in diferent orders and it is good.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/niemalsnever

I wrote "Én soha kint vagyok.", which was marked wrong with the right answer being "Én soha nem kint vagyok.". Could somebody explain why "nem" is needed here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dcseain

Double negative is usually required in Hungarian.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marty10200

What kind of sentence structure is that?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IanBiddle

word order: what should it be and why? There is no support in the tips here for this and I am getting a lot wrong for reasons I cannot understand. How is one supposed to learn?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

It's not really the league of "tips". There is support and not little, though. Check out the forum, there are at least 4 articles about it. Probably more.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/grixi774

describes my life pretty well


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tuco347297

Soha nem kint van?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shinarit

"I" is first person singular, so "vagyok" is the appropriate form of "lenni".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jurk5ooo

"Sose nem" should be accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shinarit

No, it shouldn't. "Sose" is the contraction of "soha nem".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EsNkzo

What about "soha vaguok kint"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

It doesn't work, you have to make the sentence negative with soha.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shinarit

Understandable, but not correct, as Márton pointed out.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Charlie531761

The word order is very confusing. When you click on "Tips" for this lesson, there's no explanation of word order.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

I'm not sure which lesson this is but I hit three lessons in a row (Places 1, V-1 Pres-S and Accusative respectively) that do talk about word order; let alone every second person under every second exercise forum.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GabrielSza10

én soha kint.... Why not?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shinarit

There's no verb in that. Also "soha" requires another negative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Viki282350

"Én soha vagyok kint" wasn't accepted but it literally means I am never outside. Is it that Hungarians just wouldn't say it like this grammatically? Or is it that the word 'nem' has to be included? Doesn't 'soha' mean never, negating the need for 'nem'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

Well, languages don't map "literally". I don't really get the difference between the choices you offered. Hungarians wouldn't say this grammatically AND 'nem' has to be included.

And no, in Hungarian, 'soha' doesn't negate the need for 'nem' - quite the contrary, it can only work with a negative sentence! It doesn't count as a "negative" by English terms, it requires a "negative". You may think of it as "never" not being an actual timestamp and hence it's paradoxical that things do happen "never". They can only not happen.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Viki282350

That makes sense. Now I get it that nem has to be included, soha and nem go together to mean never. I think that's what you're saying. Thank you for the explanation!

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