"הכלב שלי אכל לי את שיעורי הבית!"

Translation:My dog ate my homework!

July 19, 2016

40 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KevinAbern1

Someone must stop these dogs. This is evidently an international problem.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/joelnaqqar

כן, אבל בינתיים, בתאבון להם!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JGonduolingo

בתיאבון*


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Leshonim

What is the purpose of לי here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/radagastthebrown

The expression "הוא אכל לי" means that someone ate something that belongs to you, and it implies that it was without permission or against his will. For example, "מישהו אכל לי מהדייסה" = "someone ate from my porridge".

This kind of structure is common in Hebrew (at least, Modern Hebrew?), with other verbs as well -

Who moved my cheese = מי הזיז את הגבינה שלי/מי הזיז לי את הגבינה

He did our homework = הוא הכין לנו את שעורי הבית/הוא הכין את שעורי הבית שלנו

The difference between the two alternatives is very small and nuanced in my opinion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/airelibre

Great explanation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/joelnaqqar

This structure is also common in other languages. French: Il a volé mon ordinateur/Il m'a volé l'ordinateur Arabic: سرق حاسوبي/سرق لي الحاسوب


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GeorgiosDC

Greek as well: έκλεψε τον υπολογιστή μου / μου έκλεψε τον υπολογιστή

Or even both: μου έκλεψε τον υπολογιστή μου


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vicky375517

Σ'ευχαριστω. Αυτό με βοηθάει να το καταλάβει καλύτερα. :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/airelibre

sara' 7ābi and sara' li l7āsūb?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/joelnaqqar

Yes, very good! But I don't know if you're referring to the Q sound with the apostrophe, but if yes, then you're right. sAraqa 7āsūbi, and sAraqa li l7āsūb.

Funny thing to look at, is that all the letters of mikhshav and 7asub share the same grammatical roots. ח which could either be pronounced as "kh" or as "7", and it meets the Arabic خ which is pronounced as "kh". ש which could either be pronounced as "s" or as "sh", and it meets the Arabic س which is pronounced as "s". ב which could either be pronounced as "b" or as "v", and it meets the Arabic ب which is pronounced as "b".

So there you go, you have the same roots and they mean the same thing but they ended up sounding completely unrelated. Mikhshav, and 7asub.

Hence the beauty of studying related languages :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/joelnaqqar

Duolingo didn't let me reply to your last message, so I am replying here instead.

First, thanks for correcting me for makhshev :)

Second, very good analysis! Except that there are spoken dialects and fus7a mixed together in your answer. Let me clarify it.

In Fus7a, it is always the hard Qaaf sound. And yes it is always three syllables. The only time it ends with حركة السكون is when it is in imperative: إسرق! "Is-reQ!". Otherwise, it is always three syllables. Hence, in the example given above, it would definitely be three syllables, as: sAraqa.

In spoken dialects though, yes it could either be used as a glottal stop by all dialects, kind of like the modern prononciation of ע in words, and yes it could also be pronounced as ג, and sometimes it should be pronounced as Qaaf, to avoid any confusion with another word that doesn't contain the Qaaf, for example: قلم which means pen, as opposed to ألم which means ache. We sometimes make sure to pronounce the Qaaf so we won't end up asking the other person if he has pain, instead of a pen.

Now back to the example, in dialects, you're right, we could just say sara' or sara'et for female. However, we never say حاسوب in spoken dialects. We say كمبيوتر, pronounced grammatically kom-byu-tr, but with harsh Arabic accents becomes kam-byo-tar.

Therefore, it is either: sAraqa 7asubi (Fus7a), or sara' kom-byut-ri (Spoken dialect).

Makes any sense?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/airelibre

Great explanation, very clear!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/airelibre

With the apostrophe I meant the glottal stop, as used in Levantine Arabic (eg. 'albi for قلبي - we write this as אלבי, unless we're using the Yemenite dialect where it becomes גלבי), but I understand that it's not always possible to pronounce qaaf as a glottal stop, and sometimes you have to use the FusHa pronunciation, the uvular plosive.

So is it always three syllables, saraqa? Or can it be two, saraq, in spoken Arabic?

By the way, I think you mean makhshev (computer).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/t-hero

This makes my brain hurt.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dovbear57

Somebody ate my computer and a dog stole my homework


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamOlean

So not to be mistaken with "בשבילי". ;-)

"כלב טוב!"

No, rather best to just do your homework!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/airelibre

ate my homework


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VivekRaman7

Would it be wrong if I said הכלב שלי אכל את שיעורי הבית שלי


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dovbear57

Not wrong, just less colloquial. See radagastthebrown's excellent explanation way back at an earlier point in this thread, from some time in 2017


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

The discussion here is very helpful. Thanks esp. to radagastthebrown. Good to connect dots with French, Greek, and Arabic. The construction is in Mikra, e.g., Isa 63:10. See the discussion in any biblical Hebrew grammar under dativus incommodi or lamed of (dis)advantage or benefactive dative. See, for instance, Waltke - O'Connor, 11.2.10d (p. 208). As dovbear implied, it's colloquial now in Israeli Hebrew, so it won't likely show up in academic or formal Hebrew.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BG8aa

Where is this construction in mikra?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dovbear57

Well, our oenophile friend refers us to Isaiah 63:10, וַיֵּהָפֵ֥ךְ לָהֶ֛ם לְאוֹיֵ֖ב - translated by Robert Alter as "He became an enemy to them", but the JPS translation (used on Sefaria) expresses it as "He became their enemy", so it is comparable to "the dog ate their homework". Comparable, but in my view, not quite the same -- but I guess it's arguable either way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BG8aa

Oh I must have missed his citation. I feel like לי and להם are different though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jiggawhy

Why do you feel they are different?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hannah543088

That was what I answered also. But it got flagged as a wrong answer. The “li” part was a mystery and a surprise. Something new.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ronan150473

I didn’t get it either. Even though I figured out what it should be, it looked like “my dog ate me”.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

Yah, but then the verb אכל with direct object takes את, so לי had to be something else. VivekRaman7 removed the source of the conundrum, לי.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Ha-kelev sheli akhal li et shiurei ha-bayit!

Edited.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dovbear57

al tishk'chi et ha-"et" (It's את שיעורי הבית because of the ha- on bayit)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

dovbear, if you are providing a correction, I don’t understand it because the sentence has no tish for example.

Would you please write out the whole correct sentence, if you were providing a correction?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dovbear57

hakelev sheli akhal li et shi'urei habayit -- your original version omits the word "et" so I was saying אל תשכחי את ה-את, (don't forget the "et"), but wrote it in English letters. Sorry it was confusing


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Oh I see now. ‏אם אתה ‏ ‏ ‏מדבר לי בעברית, please use Hebrew letters so I can look them up. I haven’t learned imperative form yet, so

‏זה קשה מדי

Thank you for the correction.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaPaulKrug

This is the first time I have heard this and believed it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GabeGewurt

great explanations, but the speaker speaks so quickly and with such strong slurs that I couldn't hear the "לי". I understand that we need to hear things by local people, but......


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYesac53

Why isn't it accepting My dog ​​ate my homework


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

That should be accepted because it’s the default answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anitawww

My dog ​​ate my homework! i write this and duolingo says it's wrong!!!!

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