"הם רזים ואנחנו שמנים."

Translation:They are thin and we are fat.

July 20, 2016

24 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Hem razim ve-anakhnu shmenim.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/3_boys_mom

רזים ושמנים - it may be verbs too in this sentence


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Wouldn't that be הֵם רוֹזִים וַאֲנ֫חְנוּ שׁוֹמְנִים they are getting thinner and we are getting fatter?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dsjanta

You are forgetting about the stative verbs (or whatever they are called) in Hebrew, which don't take the waw between the first and second radical in the present tense (their pattern is xAxEx instead of xOxEx) - ישן, גדל, חסר, ירא but also many more which are used as adjectives, but are technically verbs, which also follow the pattern - שמח, יפה, רעב, מלא, יבש, צמא and many more. So, רזה and שמן also fall into this category and they can indeed be both verbs and adjectives.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Oh yes, you are correct, I forgot about them. It is הוּא רָזָה וַאֲנִי שָׁמַ֫נְתִּי he was getting thinner and I was getting fatter in the past, הוּא יּרְזֶה וַאֲנִי אֶשְׁמַן he will be getting thinner and I will be getting thinner, but in the present הוּא רָזֶה וַאֲנִי שָׁמֵן he is getting thinner and I am getting fatter. Thank you for the reminder!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rableshoni

so in the present can be translate both as adjectives and as verbs?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Yes, but in modern Hebrew it's so literary that it's on the verge of not existing...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/David.Gonzalez.G

So, in hebrew, the word for "oil" and the word for "fat (sing.)" are the same, am I right?

Both שמן.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berenyu

Shamein Shemen There may be an etymological connection somewhere, but as far as I know they're not the same shoresh.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, of course שָׁמֵן and שֶׁ֫מֶן share they same root: שׁמן "to be fat"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/David.Gonzalez.G

Thanks a lot. Something else: I hear this "שמנים" as "shmenim". Do you mean that the singular adjective "שמן" for "fat" is read "shamein"? Thanks.

PS: better for you (all the readers), not to know, what kind of fluid "semen" in spanish means... :'-D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rableshoni

not post these things here hahahaha. I speak spanish ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yirmeyahu84

My issue with this is in biblical hebrew the word for fat doesn't come from שמן. It comes from חלב, which is the same word for milk. So, I am wondering if in modern hebrew they have switched the verbs, or if this is just in reference to being overweight.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, in the Bible a human being could be שָׁמֵן too: ‏וַיַּכּוּ אֶת־מוֹאָב בָּעֵת הַהִיא‏ כַּעֲשֶׂרֶת אֲלָפִים אִישׁ כָּל־שָׁמֵן‏ וְכָל־אִישׁ חָיִל וְלֹא נִמְלַט אִישׁ Judges 3.29. Those portly men are seen here as something positive, being mighty warriors, but I do not doubt they are meant to be a bit pudgy,


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

I think you two had some confusion, because Jeremiah didn't indicate what שמן he referred to... /shamen/ - "fat" as in "a fat person" - appears in the bible, as you nicely found, but doesn't have much to do with milk. I guess Jeremiah meant /shuman/ - "fat" as in "the body fat". IIUC it is indeed rabbinic. The bible has חלב /chelev/ for animal fat. It seems indeed related to חלב /chalav/ - milk, though I'm not 100% certain how the connection goes, if at all.

Anyway, Jeremiah, I didn't quite understand your wondering. שמן /shemen/ "oil" appears in the bible, and it's not hard to see how it rolled into "fat" (the substance), they are close substances; and from that, to "a fat person".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yirmeyahu84

No. Am not confused at all. I spoke to my Rabbi and he cleared it all up for me. It had nothing to do with animal fat vs non animal fat. It had to do with effort. Ascertain milk takes less effort then ascertaining oil. A person has to practice gluttony to become fat which is where the effort is. Thanks anyways.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

I'm afraid I lost you completely, but never mind.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

@Yarden You mention that the bible has חלב chelev for animal fat, but it refers to human fat as well. In Judges 3:22, Ehud, a judge of Israel, stabs Eglon, king of Moab, in the belly and the fat closes over the hilt of his sword. The word there for fat is chelev חלב.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, human fat is animal fat, since the biochemical composition of our mammalian bodies is identical. A more interesting example is its metaphorical use, like in Deut 32.14: חֵלֶב כִּלְיוֹת חִטָּה the kidney-fat of wheat`, i.e. the choicest wheat, but I think these examples (in the Psalms too) play with a comparison to good animal fat.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

(Right, I meant "animal fat" as opposed to "vegetable fat" (oil). Is there a way to say it that will clearly include human fat?)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/atznj

Can you also say הם דקים or does this refer to objects only?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pumbush

You usually wouldn't say it about people.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShoshanetMayyim

This sentence was a lot funnier when I mixed up the word רזים with רצים

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