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"De e fölé a szekrény fölé?"

Translation:But above this wardrobe?

2 years ago

11 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Refeuh

Why "e fölé" for "this cabinet" in this case, and not the usual articles seen so far for demonstratives ? Is this "e(z)" with letter loss to ease the pronunciation with the following "fölé" ? If not, I'm not getting the grammar behind this one :-?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jsiehler
jsiehler
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Yes, exactly, that's all it is.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Refeuh

Great ! 'sounds simple, but that got me confused for a little bit :) -z_f- sound didn't seem it needed easing to me

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Shamarth
Shamarth
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It happens before every word starting with a consonant, just like in the case of the definite article.

"Ez alatt a ház alatt" (under this house), but "a mögött az ajtó mögött" (behind that door)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Refeuh

a/az made sense from previous lessons ; it just wasn't obvious to me the same happens with e/ez. 'Sounds all logical now !

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/richardkiss
richardkissPlus
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The first time I saw "ez" without the "z" was in a spoken sentence. That makes it pretty unlikely to transcript. C'est la vie.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Bastette54

I don't see any motion in "But above this wardrobe?" Something seems missing, maybe a verb to indicate motion? It rejected my entry, "But is this above the cabinet?" which also doesn't express any motion. Is it that the "e fölé" doesn't mean "is this above," it's just that thing where the article also gets the postposition?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo
mizinamo
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It's "that thing where the demonstrative also gets the postposition", precisely.

ez a szekrény but e fölé a szekrény fölé.

And the motion comes from the meaning of fölé "to a position above [something]" (as I understand it).

It's sort of the destination-of-movement counterpart of fölött.

(And the origin-of-movement counterpart would be fölül "from a position above [something]".)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Bastette54

I don't doubt that the Hungarian expresses motion toward a position above, I was just saying that I'm not hearing that in the translation.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo
mizinamo
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The "problem" is that many English prepositions and adverbs are ambiguous between location and destination-of-motion. (Causing English-speaking learners lots of problems when learning languages that distinguish them....)

For example, "I hung the picture above this wardrobe", "above" indicates destination of motion (the picture was first in my hand, then moved to a location above this wardrobe) and probably not location (i.e. while I was hanging the picture, I was located above this wardrobe).

So "above" can mean both... but it's not clear without context which of the two meanings is meant. And "to above this wardrobe" sounds a bit odd.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ElkAntlerCreek

Is this a common construction? I don't remember hearing this repeating structure of "demonstrative adjective] fölé [the] [noun] fölé" before, not that I get to speak much Hungarian these days. My instinct is to use the shorter "de ez a szekrény fölé" and I am reasonably sure that is acceptable in the real world, though I haven't tried it in Duolingo yet.

1 year ago