"I stand to the mirror."

Translation:A tükörhöz állok.

2 years ago

20 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/spiraldancing

I already reported this one ... but does anyone know what the correct translation to English should be? The given English sentence is effectively meaningless, so I'm not sure what the Hungarian is supposed to mean.

Would "I stand in front of the mirror." be an accurate translation?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/vvsey
vvsey
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In a sense, yes. But better yet: "I am going to stand by/at the mirror". Or "I will go and stand by the mirror". It is expressed with a simple present tense, but the "-höz" is a directional suffix, implying a movement that ends there, at the mirror. So you don't need anything else to imply the movement. No need to say "I am going". That one suffix takes care of that part. And add a stationary verb ("stand"), and you get the whole event: the movement to the target and the end result.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/spiraldancing

Well, I certainly don't relish the course developers' job trying to translate this sentence ... but the current translation has got to go.

Maybe "I go stand by the mirror." or "I go stand in front of the mirror." ... something like this is valid, sensible English, and is perhaps at least close to matching the intent of the Hungarian sentence.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/paulvink

"I step in front of the mirror" would probably do it, although strictly, you don't know if the person winds up in front of it instead of beside or behind it.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/vvsey
vvsey
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Yes, any good replacement you could think of should be welcomed. And Hungarian has more than enough of these very specific and useful prefixes and suffixes that are difficult to translate accurately. So, brace yourselves, and please keep reporting and offering those alternatives. And keep asking questions, somebody will always be happy to explain the exact meaning.
In this case, "-hoz/-hez/-höz", does not say anything about the position around the target, whether in front, behind, beside, etc. Simply just close vicinity.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Krisbaudi
Krisbaudi
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It is hard to imagine, that this works in Hungarian or any other language. Language stenography!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ErikAnderson3

The key problem here is that the English verb to stand on its own does not generally imply movement, so there's a sizable semantic gap here: in English, one cannot stand to a physical thing or location.

Does the Hungarian verb allni imply movement? The English to stand up does imply movement, but generally only in the sense of to change position from not standing, to standing. It seems that the Hungarian verb (or perhaps just the -höz ending?) indicates more motion than just becoming upright.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/vvsey
vvsey
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In Hungarian, similarly to English, "állni" on its own does not imply any movement.
But where English has the single "stand up", Hungarian has probably dozens of additives (preverbs and pospositions) that, together with "állni", describe various actions that result in a standing position (or not). And, as in the example above, those additions don't even have to be related to the verb.
To the mirror / I stand. - "A tükörhöz állok." A movement, a destination and a standing position at the end.
"To sit" - "ülni", has at least two options in English: to sit down and to sit up. But why stop there? There are so many actions in the world that could end in a sitting position. Sit here, sit there, sit apart, sit in, sit out, sit away, sit over, sit onto, etc. Why not? These, and then some, are all valid options in Hungarian. Hungarian does not have to say "come over here and sit down". Hungarian simply says "sit to here" - "ülj ide".
Once you make peace with this concept, life will be much easier.

Here are some examples of what you can do with "állni". Some of them are expressed completely differently in English:
Megállni - to stop
Beállni - to join
Leállni - to stop, to take a break
Felállni - to stand up
Elállni - to last a long time, to go park somewhere else, to change one's mind about a decision
Átállni - to change affiliation
Ráállni - to stand onto, to agree to do something
Ideállni - to come and stand here
Összeállni - to join forces, to become one
Etc. Etc.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Krisbaudi
Krisbaudi
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A perfect 3 lingot worth answer for our problems with the word állni. Now it is a lot easier to understand it.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Krisbaudi
Krisbaudi
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A perfect question!

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Krisbaudi
Krisbaudi
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I will be standing at the mirror?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo
mizinamo
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More like Ich stelle mich an den Spiegel.

So there is movement which ends in you standing at the mirror - your sentence just describes the end result but does not imply movement.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Krisbaudi
Krisbaudi
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Thank you for the German Translation. It is clear! Maybe there is no exact English translation available, which says the same.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kathy979841
Kathy979841
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Again the same problem. Needs movement which doesnt translate well. Surely with so many comments something can be done about the whole exercise.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo
mizinamo
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These sentence discussion comments are not regularly read by the course developers (the only ones who can actually change anything). I'm sure they have more than enough to do just handling the reports submitted properly -- they are just volunteers doing this in their free time after all. Reading thousands of individual sentence discussions takes up a lot more time than looking in the development area where reports for a given skill are collected together.

Also, you can hardly expect any action to be taken one hour after posting something.

Again; they're volunteers. It gets done when it gets done. Frustrating while we wait, but there's not a lot we can do except keep reporting additional problems in order to improve the course.

(I can imagine that part of the slow speed may also be frustration caused by the sheer number of reports they have to act on.)

Also, reports containing suggestions to better wording are a lot easier to work with than "this wording suxxx fix it doulingo".

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/kowalsky2
kowalsky2Plus
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The already suggested "I step to", which is also used in other sentences in this lesson, seems to be the best translation (even if it does have a closer equivalent in "lépek"). But I was wondering if the transitive form of stand could work here, as in "I stand myself to the mirror". Can this form suggest any more movement other than vertical?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Krisbaudi
Krisbaudi
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This is exactely the translation for: Ich stelle mich an den Spiegel from mizinamo, and describes the hungarian sentence perfectly. But is is perfect for native English speakers too?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ErikAnderson3

That sounds very odd as English. When using to stand as a transitive, it generally requires a preposition, usually up, as in to stand something upto put something upright.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/kowalsky2
kowalsky2Plus
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Thanks for correcting me. I wasn't sure about it at all, I was just curious if it could be rare but acceptable to use the verb stand in a reflexive way. But apparently, while it works in German, it is utterly unnatural in English.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Jean-Louis230649

This sentence seems to me to be a nonsense. höz indicates a movement toward something. But áll means that the person stands motionless. So either "a tükörnél állok" = I am standing by the mirror or : "a tükörhöz megyek" = I am going to the mirror

1 year ago
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