"היא רוצָה מכונת כביסה חדשה."

Translation:She wants a new washing machine.

July 25, 2016

13 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

hi rotzá mechonát kvisá chadashá.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Janis559500

Danny, you do such wonderful transliterations, especially indicating accented syllables. Could I prevail upon you to switch from ch to kh for כ and ח? ch has just too many sounds, as in church, charade, school, Bach. ch even sometimes confuses people in English, as in two pronunciations of "machinations." Once we teach people to use kh, there is no ambiguity. Thanks again for all that you contribute to the DL Hebrew community.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

I appreciate your comment, but I have been following the transliteration given by both pealim.com and (Hebrew) wiktionary.com from my very first transliteration - those sites were my first contact with transliteration, so I never though anybody would have any problem with it. I would therefore like to continue doing so, both for consistency sake, but also because having a Slavic background, seeing "kh" doesn't make much sense to me, maybe like "ch" is confusing to you. So, in a way, my transliteration points to the fact that not everybody learning Hebrew on Duolingo is an English speaker, and that it is OK that this is so.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agatha229532

Danny, I appreciate your transliterations anyway but let me try to convince you that "kh" does make sense. My native language is Slavic and seeing "kh" helps me a lot - with pronunciation and spelling. I know that to a listener כ and ח more often than not sound the same. But they are not intended to be the same sounds. If they were the same - why design different letters for them? The reason for the confusion is that sounds change when they are wedged among other sounds - thus many discussions and frustration on the forum, when some people hear the same words and phrases differently. When I see the letter כ I try to pronounce the "kh" as a gurgling sound made in "shallow" throat, higher than ח ( a gurgling sound made deep in the throat, as when you attempt to clear it). The result is frequently - as Ingeborg once kindly admitted - apparition of proper pronunciation without the need to apply rules. I believe that even the shape of niqqud marks serve as visual reminders of how a symbol is supposed to be pronounced. If you are interested I could explain and go on and on but - since I know that my passion for looking for logic where nobody sees it might be annoying I will only ask you to give כ a try.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Not sure whether I shall stay in your grace with this, but I am very critical with regard to the opinion that the script represents visually the sounds. Certainly not the consonants, which were originally pictures of things beginning with the sound of the letter, like a house, a wheel, a hook, a palm, water, a house etc. As for the niqqud it is possible they represent something, like proposed by Rabbi Abraham ben Meir de Balmis in the 15th century stating that vowel points represent graphically the shapes a mouth adapts when pronouncing them, i.e. פַּתָּח be a horizontal line which can be drawn connecting the corners of the mouth pronouncing [a], or by Spinoza, who thought the קָמָץ was a combination of פַּתָּח and חוֹלָם, because it sounds like a mix of [a] and [o]. Nonetheless I suppose that you risk to phantasise and that the wish is father to the thought. I do not think Hebrew is to any degree comparable to e.g. Hangul, which was designed from scratch to visualise mouth positions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agatha229532

Of course you are right about the consonants. It was a mistake, thanks for pointing it out. I've removed "letters" from my post. As to the niqqud marks I was thinking in the direction you described. So I've invented a wheel and maybe I am wrong but at least in splendid company! Thanks for all these informations and inspiration to broaden my horizons. Hangul, wow!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Also, it's a fact of modern spoken Hebrew, other than tiny pockets (some old immigrants from Arab countries, very few radio narrators), that the pronunciation of ח is completely identical to כ without dagesh, while כ with dagesh is completely identical to ק. Why the invented different symbols? Because when they invented them, a couple of millennia ago, they were different, and spelling changes a lot slower than pronunciation (especially in Hebrew, where the spelling is set is in religiously sacred scripts).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agatha229532

Janis, it is a wonderful suggestion. Danny, would you please?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

The recommendation of the Hebrew academy is also the transliteration /kh/. To write /ch/ is a usage introduced by people used to the German, West Slavic and Baltic spelling conventions:


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hsn626796

What does כביסה exactly mean, and what's its part of speech ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, כְּבִיסָה "washing, laundering" is the verbal noun of כָּבַס "to wash".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zdeka985336

The first noun in the construct is called the nismach (נסמך) and the following noun somech(סומך). כביסה=laundry


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/1OwOl

Because the last one broke the house.

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