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"I like boys."

Translation:Szeretem a fiúkat.

July 25, 2016

28 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_paranoia_

Isn't "Fiúkat szeretek" (which Duolingo rejects) a more direct translation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vvsey

I am not sure exactly what that would mean, without proper context. Can you give one?
But you are right, "I like boys" and "Szeretem a fiúkat" do not necessarily match.

One context could be about someone's orientation, as in:

"Do you like boys or girls?" - "A fiúkat vagy a lányokat szereted?"
"I like boys" - "A fiúkat szeretem"

Another context could be just a general statement, like "I like apples":

"I like apples" - "Szeretem az almát" - singular
"I like boys" - "Szeretem a fiúkat" - this is in plural

Or:

"I like boys because they are strong" - "Szeretem a fiúkat, mert erősek".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

I think the question is why Duolingo requires Szeretem a fiúkat with definite -em a... and rejects the indefinite Fiúkat szeretek, since the English sentence is indefinite ("I like boys", not "I like the boys").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vvsey

Yes, understood. I was just having a really hard time coming up with a context where I would use "Fiúkat szeretek". The common statement for a general "I like apples, I like boys" is definitely "Szeretem az almát, szeretem a fiúkat". There is no question about that. With the definite article and the definite (transitive?) conjugation "-em".
If I can mention Spanish:

"Me gusta la manzana" - "Szeretem az almát" - "I like apples".
"Me gustan los niños" - Szeretem a fiúkat" - "I like boys".

Hungarian is acting like Spanish in this regard.

For the sentence "Fiúkat szeretek.", I don't know. The sentence is not incorrect, it is fine. It is just hard to put in context. This is the best I can come up with:

"Fiúkat szeretek tanítani, nem lányokat" - "I like to teach boys, not girls".

But that's a bit different.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

So the answer to

Isn't "Fiúkat szeretek" (which Duolingo rejects) a more direct translation?

seems to be something like:

"It's more direct, but that's not how we would express that English sentence in Hungarian. And so Duolingo was correct to reject it."

Right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vvsey

Yes, let's go with that. A more direct, more literal translation. Thank you for that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_paranoia_

A young woman I once knew could say "I like boys" with some enthusiasm. I think she meant it more like apples, than in comparison to girls...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vvsey

Then it would be "Szeretem a fiúkat", for sure.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sz1305

So if "Szeretem a fiúkat" is the translation for "I like Boys", how would one translate "I like the boys."?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

The same way. If you find that strange, trust me, I feel you, I'm also struggling with it at other languages... also, don't forget that 80% of English sentences can be translated to completely different sounding Hungarian sentences. :P Languages don't feel pressurized to cover the undertones of other languages and make the same differences.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbgreen11

Only "szeretek" not "szeretem" is given as an option when I hovered over "like" (still learning). I wondered about when to use which one since I am still figuring that one out. Should both options be presented when "like" is hovered over?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbgreen11

So if I use "Szeretem" instead of "szeretek" I need to use "a" for "the" even though it is not in the English version of this sentence? I have been penalized many times for omitting or inserting an "a" when it wasn't supposed to be there. How am I to know when to insert a "the"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrsBrny
Mod
  • 465

Sorry about the delay with this.. it's fixed now and we accept both szeretek fiúkat and szeretem a fiúkat. It's important that the verb form -em appears with a.

And, confusingly, both can mean I like boys.. In the sentence szeretek fiúkat, the more precise meaning is something like there are boys that I like; with szeretem a fíukat, it's a generic statement I like boys in general.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

In English, articles are pretty much generic vs specific. Generic counts as indefinite. In Hungarian, it's more like "I expect you to recognize it" vs "I don't expect you to recognize it". Since everyone knows what boys are, it falls into the first category, therefore definite. Therefore definite conjugation.

So variants with "a fiúkat" sound much more suitable for a general statement while "fiúkat" + indefinite conjugation versions sound much more like "I happen to like/love some boys".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JzsefTams-

What is wrong with sticking in Én at the begining?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrsBrny
Mod
  • 465

Nothing! It's accepted now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

Apart from sounding like a foreigner after 5-10 sentences or does that count? :P


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KarenFerri3

So, if I understand correctly, there will always be a definite article (a/az) after an "em" ending? And the reason is that that is just the way it is in Hungarian? I've been trying diligently to understand Hungarian nuances, and I am really having trouble.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrsBrny
Mod
  • 465

If things were that easy! Here's a couple of things that should help. First, in the present tense, you should generalise the other way round: whenever the object has a(z) then the (first person singular) verb will have the -m ending.

The reason you have to look at the object is that some verbs are exceptional. They are called -ik-verbs, because they're third person singular ends in -ik, e.g. eszik ‘s/he is eating’ or iszik ‘s/he is drinking’. With these, in the first person singular you can use the -m ending even with indefinite objects, even though colloquially many speakers use -k just as straightforwardly (and we try to accept both in the course).

Finally, in the past tense, there's an additional quirk which makes things easier though: in the first person singular, there is only -m, and no -k, independently of what the object is like. You'll see this in a later skill.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/barnak01

Kedvelem a fiúkat.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/clairelanc3

There was no article in English. So why not accept "szeretem fiúkat"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

See the comment thread started by _paranoia_.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jacobwagma1

I said "szeretek fiúkat."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KoningBasz

Szeretem a hülye nyelveket [?]


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Charmian280720

Is there a rule about when the accusative suffix is -at, -et, -ot etc. I constantly seem to muddle them


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

There kinda is, although it's not simple and there are exceptions. Also, people may have their own preferences at complicated patterns.

The main distinction lies between -at, -ot vs -et, -öt. The former are back vowel variants, the latter are front vowel variants, also, -öt is rounded vowel exclusive. To decide whether a suffixless word is considered front vowel or back vowel, you have to take the last part of the compound word (if it's compound, obviously) and take the last vowel that's not é or i/í. Back vowels are a á o ó u ú, the rest are front vowels.

Now, for adjectives, -at and -et make the overwhelming majority (I'm not even sure whether there are -öt adjectives, apart from nationalities that act more like nouns anyway). For plural or possessed nouns, the same applies. For singular nouns, -ot makes the majority but there are irregular stem changes and in those cases, -at is the common back vowel variant. Some singular nouns don't have stem changes and still get -at. And rounded front vowels (ö ő ü ű) typically get ö as linking vowel for accusative.

So yeah, this should be it for now, we will see how much it helps in practice. :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jzsuzsi
Mod
  • 806

I copy an explanation here

If the word ends in a vowel (and not a or e), then -t is simply added to the word

  • fiú -> fiút
  • -> nőt

You will meet words ending in -a and -e, which become and before they get the -t.

alma - almát

körte - körtét

In later skills, you'll see that usually if the word ends in a consonant, we have to add a vowel before the -t, so it can be -ot / -at / -et / -öt . The vowel is determined by vowel harmony, as with verbs! Words with front vowels in them get a front vowel before the -t, words with back vowels get a back vowel.

back vowels front vowels
a, á e, é,
o, ó i, í,
u, ú ö, ő
ü, ű

-for back vowels usually the accusative is an -ot

  • sajt ‘cheese’ -> sajtot

  • narancs 'orange' -> narancsot

-except for a few words that you have to memorise, they get -at:

  • ház ‘house’ -> házat

  • toll 'pen' -> tollat

-for front vowels usually the accusative is an -et:

  • szék ’chair’ -> széket

  • zöldség ’vegetable’ -> zöldséget

-except for words which have ö / ő / ü / ü in the last syllable, they get -öt

  • gyümölcs ’fruit’ -> gyümölcsöt

  • főnök ’boss’ -> főnököt

In some special cases, even if the word ends in a consonant, we simply add the -t, when the word ends in -r / -l / -n / - ny / - s / -sz / -z / -j / -ly.

  • bor ’wine’ -> bort

  • lány ’girl’ -> lányt


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jzsuzsi
Mod
  • 806

Note: this explanation above for the singular accusative

"Szeretem a fiúkat" has plural accusative: fiú+k+at

Plural accusative usually looks like this: Make the plural form, then add -at / -et . (I think I have never seen -ot or -öt in this situation)

fiúkat
nőket
almákat
körtéket
sajtokat
narancsokat
házakat
tollakat
székeket
zöldségeket
gyümölcsöket
főnököket
borokat
lányokat

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