"סוף סוף אתה הולך!"

Translation:Finally you are going!

July 27, 2016

39 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanFendel

it seems to me that "you are finally going" should be acceptable, even though the word order is different. This seems like more natural English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/manievdh

I agree that "you are finally going" should be acceptable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/senorsmile

just reported the same issue.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

2 years later (March 2019), still not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Its-me.

They're different sentences with a different emphasis. I wouldn't treat them synonymously at all in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

I agree that they have a different emphasis in English. But I think the Hebrew sentence applies equally to both. You can say in Hebrew אתה סוף סוף הולך (as well as אתה הולך סוף סוף), but I hear no difference in emphasis among the different orders in Hebrew - סוף סוף is so strong that it's practically emphasized in any word order.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AN2403

Shouldn't 'at last' be accepted as translation for סוף סוף?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

I think it should.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SJEarnest

Is סוף used one time anything?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flootzavut

Do you mean סוף rather than סוף סוף? On its own, סוף means "end."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SJEarnest

That's what I was asking. Thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flootzavut

אין בעד מה!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RussellAE

Interesting. I wonder if it's related to the English word "suffix" in any way...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

It's a good guess, but no. The word suffix comes from the Latin suffigere, or sub + figere, meaning "fasten under" or "fasten to".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RussellAE

Ah, thanks for that lesson. This will just be my little tool for remembering the Hebrew word then :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Sof pasuq is the name of the cantillation mark that occurs on the last word of every verse in the Tanakh. So if you’re looking at a Hebrew Bible and see a small vertical line under the word, you know it’s the last word in the verse. But just to be thorough for those interested in cantillation, (cantillation is how the Hebrew Bible is chanted), sometimes there appear to be two sof pasuq under a word but one is a stress marker.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/houthakker72

Perhaps this should accept:

"Finally you are leaving"

?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlmogL

Not exactly - leaving is עוזב. It's just like in English in this case. Finally you are going to the place that I've been telling you you should see!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarissaS103

I keep thinking about the ים סוף, the Red Sea. סוף סוף אנחנו חוצים את הים סוף.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, but you are aware that the Red Sea has סוּף bulrush as its second element with an [u]?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JetpackBrian

Are there a lot of reduplicated words in Hebrew? If so, what does it usually mean when you reduplicate a word?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

By reduplicate, do you mean the word which has more than one meaning?

Reduplicate is to repeat (a syllable or other linguistic element) exactly or with a slight change (e.g. hurly-burly, see-saw ).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JetpackBrian

I mean repeating a word like how "סוף" means end, but "סוף סוף" means "finally". Are there other phrases with the same word twice? Is it common to make an adverb by saying a noun twice?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Le’at ‏לאט means slowly and le’at le’at also means slowly.

In rhetoric, an epizeuxis is the repetition of a word or phrase in immediate succession, typically within the same sentence, for vehemence or emphasis.

I am interested also to know if this is common in Hebrew. It’s rampant in Japanese.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agatha229532

In Polish there is a similar construction that might make this unexpected change of meaning more clear: "koniec"="end", "końców" = "of the ends". It gives an expresion "Koniec końców" = "The end of ends" = "finally" :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Interesting! Maybe this is the source of the Hebrew phrase.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Duplicating (what's reduplicating?) words is common in Hebrew, but this one is unique. Normally the doubling retains the single word's meaning and just emphasizes it. Here it actually got a new meaning, related to the single word but not guessable from it.

This is not common at all. I bet there are other examples, but nothing jumps to my mind...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

How about פָּרָה פָּרָה one at a time, literally cow cow (?), as another unguessable example.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Bingo!

(And yes, it's "cow cow", in the sense "one cow at a time" - the origin is the punch line from an old joke, where the young bull wants to jump on the whole female herd at once, and the old bull suggests a more patient approach. The joke lost its flavor I think, but the idiom is still popular.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

My wife found טיפין טיפין - literally "drops drops" in Aramaic. The idiomatic meaning is "little bit a time", don't know if the doubled idiom was coined in Aramaic or in Hebrew, but it's well known for Hebrew speakers.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, I think טִפִּין טִפִּין was first used in the שיר השירים רבה, namely וּמַה מַּיִם יוֹרְדִין טִפִּין טִפִּין וְנַעֲשׂוֹת נְחָלִים נְחָלִים, כָּךְ תּוֹרָה: אָדָם לוֹמֵד שְׁתֵּי הֲלָכוֹת הַיּוֹם וּשְׁתַּיִם לְמָחָר עַד שֶׁנַּעֲשָׂה כְּנַחַל נוֹבֵע just as water comes down drop by drop and creates rivers aplenty, so is the Torah: a person learns two halakhot today and two for tomorrow, until he becomes like a flowing river.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

Both טיפין טיפין and פרה פרה are variations on the more basic אחד אחד. I'm not sure if this one is transparent or an idiom. The usual meaning is "one by one" (please enter one by one); one nice usage is as a complement for cooked rice - האורז יצא אחד אחד, meaning the grains are separate rather than lumped.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arne64084

Would it be natural to say this in the meaning of leaving, and not just going to some place


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, yes, if context is provided. You may say things like אָז אֲנִי יָכוֹל לָלֶ֫כֶת עַכְשָׁיו? So can I go now with the intention of leaving.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zagor42216

Walking was not accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Sometimes ‏הולך means walking and sometimes it means going, so unless the context clearly calls for walking such as saying to your 11 month old “finally you’re walking!” it’s best to use going because going is more likely to be correct. (The meaning of walking is unnecessarily narrow).

DL accepted “walking”.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

I tend to disagree. I think the "walking" meaning is definitely possible (although it comes to mind less readily), and it's not included in the "going" meaning. In other words, your example of saying this to a child is quite likely, can't be replaced with "going", and the given Hebrew sentence is the way to translate it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zimo604

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