Hungarian beta version
I have been quite frustrated with some glitches in the beta version. I understand, however, the difficulty in creating a course for such a difficult language. In particular, in ensuring that most possible correct answers are accepted. We have been waiting for a long time for this course and I am very grateful to all the contributors for the opportunity to learn Hungarian. I am looking forward to the final version where those glitches will be corrected, I am sure.
You can report any glitches or bugs or any Hungarian errors by clicking the button at the bottom after you answer a question.
I definitely agree that we should report any bugs. However, I share GerSzej's sentiment - the sheer volume of bugs is disheartening and makes it almost impossible at some points to make any progress. There have been some lessons where my question count has exceeded 50 almost entirely due to using synonyms or different word order from the official answer on record. One of the most frustrating things is that there is no consistency in the official answers - as jzsuzsi pointed out, sometimes "next to" and "beside" are both accepted for "mellett", but sometimes only one is accepted, and there are many additional similar examples.
Overall, the Hungarian tree also feels much less polished and checked than earlier trees that were released in beta. There are quite a few misspellings, incorrect words, and just plain nonsensical sentences. In one case, I reached a point where these were so bad that I had to copy down the "correct" solutions and paste them back in as answers to be able to pass a lesson, which I did in the interest of moving forward to help catch bugs in later lessons.
Over 50? That's nothing -- I've gotten up to 80 in one practice section, and around 70 on a few others. I have been doing the Hungarian course for 24 days now and I submit an average of 20 reports per day -- sometimes more. That makes about just under 500 reports so far. I have received notifications from Duolingo that about 40 of my recommended "My answer should be accepted" reports have now been approved in the system.
Instead of getting frustrated at the fact that I have to send a report I take it as a blessing that I am able to offer a small appreciation of gratitude to the Hungarian course developers and that I am able to perhaps make a positive difference (however small) in the learning experiences of future Hungarian learners. I find it hard to get too frustrated with the Hungarian course when I am just in awe that we have a tool like Duolingo available now to learn Hungarian. Computers and software exist only to make our lives easier, so how can we get frustrated at them when they offer us something that we never had before, even if it isn't perfect?
No one will deny that the errors are many, but I still feel that the brilliance of the course design outshines the numerous errors.
I don't speak on behalf of Hungarian team but I want to say all the issues you just addressed are not easy to fix. The structure of Incubator requires everything to be manually added so among thousands of sentences, one can't guarantee all possible answers to be included and be consistent.
As a course creator (of Vietnamese) and a learner of Hungarian myself, I completely understand the viewpoints from both sides. Now, what we all can do is to be patient and assist the team by clicking report button or creating a collection of severe issues to address in one post in this forum. It's the interaction between the community and the team to make this work. It may take a while, even more than a year, to have a "good enough" version of the Hungarian course.
thank you. Of course I am doing this on a regular basis. I also place comments for discussion whenever relevant.
Yes, reports and participation in sentence discussions help the course creators to make the course better. I believe that Duolingo prepares it to go into Phase 3 when there are less than 5 reports per 100 users.
I don't know. I have generally been enthusiastic about contributing to the development of Duolingo programs by reporting alternate translations, small errors, and so forth. I was quite excited about doing the same for Hungarian, but after the millionth sentence like Azon az ágyon ülök, amelyikből nem mászik ki a macska I admit I've ended up with a feeling like: "This is just a terrible sentence to use for translation practice. I don't want to expend effort thinking up tolerable ways to translate it because (1) there are too many options, and (2) it isn't even a sentence that new learners of the language should be bothering with. Any natural translation is going to be far from word-to-word and in practice it'll be chosen according to elements of context that can't be included in a Duolingo exercise."
And it's hard to know what to do or where to begin with things like "There is red skirt on those, to whom we are waiting." Yes, I can report that "the correct solution is unnatural or contains an error" but presumably somebody already approved it and didn't see a problem with it...
Possibly I'm just grumpy today though.
In the sentences, "mellett" is usually translated as beside. "Next to" is sometimes accepted, sometimes not. Do we really need to report it in every sentence? Please creators, make beside = next to in every sentence.
Unfortunately, yes, I think they kind of need it reported every time.
In a few cases where the same error occurs several times in one specific lesson, I've tried using the "other" option in the "report a problem" form, to emphasize that the issue occurs in most/all of the sentences of that lesson. I think that might work, but to say for the entire course, that "x = y", I think is too broad.
As far as I know, there is no simple, reliable tool to make such global replacements! (i.e. accept "A" everywhere that "B" is currently accepted)
My dos centavos ...
I have been a Hungarian language student for 2-3 years; while I am definitely learning from this course, most of it is simple review for me. So in my case, I am working through the entire course, mainly just to help with debugging it -- really beta-testing, rather than trying to learn from it.
I report many bugs, and I've identified many issues that repeat a lot ("plane" for "airplane" and "large" for "big", both usually get flagged as wrong). In cases like this, I always test the version I know is usually wrong first, and when I see that it's wrong again, I report it, again, and again ... sometimes reporting the same error across 20-30 sentences.
I regularly receive "we accepted your correction" emails from the dev team, indicating to me that they are, in fact, working on it, accepting and expanding the accepted versions for the translations.
I guess my point is simply that "beta" means beta ... the course still needs a lot of work ... and if you are mainly here just to learn Hungarian, you either must be very patient at this stage, or just wait 3-6 months, until it is more robust.
When the course was released, I thought that I will spend all my time on it, but it is so disheartening that i do less than 100 xp in a week. When there were questions why the course is made so slowly, they said that they want to list all the possible answers, but they even don't accept answers in present simple instead of present continuous. I try to report everything I can to help the course, but really... Plus they use a lot of veeery long sentences which look screwed both in Hungarian and English. Why make a language look harder than it actually is. My luck is that I use the course only to review grammar, but I have pity for beginners.
I also find that some questions are written in a very "tricky" way, as if the person who wrote them was trying to "outsmart" us, rather than to teach us. Maybe just a feeling but I did not find this in other languages. In any case, I intend to keep up.
Well I just give three examples of sentences, which represent most of the problems in that c(o)urse. I only had to check one exercise in one chapter to pick them out.
(1) "A két fiú odafut a két nőhöz, a brazil az angolhoz és a magyar a brazilhoz." - "The two boys run over to the two women, the Brazilian to the English and the Hungarian to the Brazilian."
Too long sentences! Maybe there is a little chance to get them reedited?
(2) "Az autó nem a japán bankhoz áll oda, hanem az amerikaihoz. - The car is not standing there to the Japanese bank, but to the American."
Sometimes the english is faulty, sometimes the hungarian, sometimes both. But at least they are corrected by the tons of hints of the users.
(3)"Az óvónő nem vendég, hanem ő a főnök!" - "The kindergarten teacher is not a guest, but she is the boss!"
Well, one of the few "kindergarten teacher" sentences, where they are not flying, but there are much too rediculous sentences without any sense of usability at all. And I'm affraid, they will stay forever.
I know, that Duolingo is for free, so I do not argue in general about a new course in its beta phase. But at the moment that c(o)urse is everything but helpful for beginners and refreshers and absolutely no glorious chapter for Duolingo.
Thank you for the Hungarian course. It may not be perfect - what is? - but I'm grateful for all the hard work already put into it. There are very few alternatives and it is wonderful that this has been developed.
There is a beta but it still say "Jo napot kivanok" means "Good day" only. If you use the word "KIVANOK" then translate it also. Jo napot Kivanok means for sure "I wish a Good Day" Translate word by word "Good Day, I wish"
Hungarian is a very difficult language, so please give the learning People the right words.
How is it with a Course Hungarian for german speaking People? Is there something in plan?
And there is no "I" (én) in any kind of Translation.... Why is it so?
Juiiiiiiiiiii, there are a lot of mistakes in the translations... So you have a lot to work on it before it is a real help to learn hungarian language.
Sorry, my 2 Cent for it...