"מתי היא מחזירה אותו כבר?"

Translation:When is she giving it back already?

July 27, 2016

53 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Leshonim

It's almost impossible to hear היא.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YamirRomer

I think it is pretty much natural in semitic language to concatenate words in order to benefit pronunciation. In arabic moon and sun letters deal with this. I don't know how it works for Hebrew.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yairah

Not limited to Semitic languages - VERY necessary to understand in


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

What do you mean "moon and sun letters"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YamirRomer

The last letter of the previous word absorbs the first letter of the next word. This is how it works for arabic. In Hebrew there is the same effect and that's why sometimes some sounds are not pronounced (there are rules for this). But i don't know the name for this in Hebrew.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agatha229532

What a beautiful term. Thanks for the explanation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chickensnake

This is a proper way to pronounce it in a sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KyotoNoKitsune

but you always have to remember that this course is for beginners. The sentence is very easy and yet I didn't understand anything. It's simply too fast


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WDalia

Agreed. I re-listened numerous times and could never make out the היא


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gillianf19

I agree. This woman usually talks way too fast!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/daswinter

I speak decent Hebrew. Her intonation and enunciation are the primary issues, the speed isn't so bad. If it weren't garbled or run-on words, it would be fine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tngraham

The English here is odd. Idiomatically, when we use "already," it is with respect to a situation which is already over, not one which has yet to end. For example, we might ask "Is it over already?" More colloquially, we might use "already" to express impatience in an imperative utterance. For example, we might say "Give it back already!" But I never hear anyone ask questions about future events using the word "already" as it is used in this sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fltiennne

I agree. The English doesn't really make any sense to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dac_avila

What meaning does the כבר convey here then?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agatha229532

"kvar" can be translated very differently https://tlv1.fm/streetwise-hebrew/2013/09/10/kvar-streetwise-hebrew/ I think Duo had a difficult choice: to irritate learners with a suddenly different English meaning for "kvar" or with a lame (but literal) English translation...Poor bird.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/daswinter

"Already" here, as in English, indicates impatience. In this case, because the item not yet returned has seemingly been borrowed for a substantial amount of time and should be returned right away. "Already" does not need to be a reference to the past. Would you prefer "when will she yet return it?" Or a statement of woe like "wouldst she yet returneth it?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenDavid22

This use may be okay in Hebrew but it doesn't translate well for English in the present tense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wilberdeck

Your suggestion that already indicates impatience, in Hebrew or in a similar way in English, does make sense. Your 2 proposed alternatives don't sound like English at all - at least not from recent centuries!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hannah649004

Does the Hebrew sentence need, "כבר" at the end? If so please would a native speaker explain why and what the sentence actually means?

Someone has suggested that having "כבר" at the end of the sentence is a sign of impatience or frustration. I'm aware that, "already" is used like that in American English but does this also apply to Hebrew?

Thanks for your help.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeismerEsc1

Maybe if the sentence were "Why isn't she giving it back already?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mabel544786

This sentence is impossible to understand in the current English translation. "When " points to something that may happen in the future and "already" refers to something that has happend in the past. If this expression is used in hebrew in normal day by day language by native hebrews, the meaning of the sentence should be explained to us, I have no idea what this sentence mean by reading the current translation, so I think some english words must change to get it correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NatashaSha386361

In Israeli pronunciation it's common to drop the initial ה. So instead of hearing "hee," you're hearing just "ee."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yairah

BTW this is not limited to Semitic languages - it is central to to to understanding spoken French, this "smooshing together" of the last letters of the previous word with the first letters of the following word. I believe the term for this in English is "elide."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

That's a different phenomenon. Hebrew speakers drop their ה's even at the beginning of a sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jonathan126555

"Already" at the end of this sentence will only make sense to those who are familiar with Yiddish-inflected English.

Outside of this dialect, the same effect could probably be rendered like this:

Just when is she giving it back?

The present tense seems artificial here (I realise the unit is on present-tense verbs only) since this tense has a future sense only for decided and scheduled events, whereas the time when she will return the book is unknown. A future tense verb would be more natural:

Just when is she going to give it back?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Helen613612

Thank you, that's a very helpful explanation!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ursula300230o

In every language you will find a lot of people who aren't able to pronounce properly. This woman is a quite good example for that. That's worth the training. Really, isn't it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/houthakker72

Could this also be impersonal, as in:

When is she returning it already ? ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mabel544786

But what does it mean to give anything back ALREADY??? Either she has given it back ( past tense), then you may add already as a sign of surprise, like in: Did it happen so soon, did she really do it already? Or if some one asks you to do something because they do not know that it is actually done, you may use "already" to say: I have already done that, or I have done that already. I cannot understand how Duo Lingo use "already" as a word in the present in English. I hope Duo Lingo can find another translation of the hebrew "כבר" when used in present tense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/houthakker72

Thanks - I guess that should be accepted in the English then


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ItaiLev-ra

That's right. Report that :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wilberdeck

I think the English would be easier to understand if we used the future: When is she going to return it, already? It is a colloquial use of already, and just signals impatience.

But for an isolated sentence, where we have no knowledge of what 'it' is, it would be clearer, I think, to use את זה in the example, rather than assume it is a masculine noun (a book for instance) that we are impatiently waiting for her to return.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Allan892482

And I heard מתי היא מחזירה את האוטו כבר When is she finally returning the car


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Matai he machzira oto kvar?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ronni13530

Je suis francaise 1- je ne comprends pas car elle parle trop vite 2-je ne comprends pas la grammaire oto à la place de ze 3-je ne comprends pas la traduction en anglais

Ça me décourage !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

I understand. 1) Yes, she does talk too fast sometimes. C'est la vie. 2) The choice of אותו vs. את זה (not just זה!) is subtle. Using אותו suggests that we already know what "it" is. 3) The "already" at the end of the English sentence is idiomatic, as is the use of כבר in Hebrew. It basically means "I'm tired of waiting. Do it now!"

I hope that helps!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Helen613612

N'abandonnez pas ! tu vas réussir! Cette traduction est un peu difficile à comprendre, même pour les anglophones.

C'est parce que l'anglais utiliserait un idiome très différent pour transmettre l'idée d'attendre avec impatience que quelqu'un rende quelque chose.

L'explication de LSadun ci-dessous est utile. Je pense qu'une phrase équivalente en français serait quelque chose comme "Dans combien de temps le ramènera-t-elle ? À l'heure actuelle?"

J'espère que cela a du sens. Je ne parle pas bien français, et Google translate produit parfois des trucs bizarres.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/esdrujula69

Why is it "מתי היא מחזירה אותו" instead of "מתי היא מחזירה את זה"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/David891577

The software doesnt accept "when does she give it back already ?" "When is she returning this back already ?" "When is she giving this back already ?"

I feel like the development of the hebrew course has been stalled for some time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

It's not stalled. The volunteers who run the site (yes, they're volunteers!) are undermanned and have a very long backlog of sentences to fix. Overall, they have an inadequate supply of accepted English translations, and have a lot of awkward (or even absurd) recommended English translations. Knowing the fine points of English usage (and especially American English usage) is not their strength.

Still, I keep noticing old errors that have been fixed, so they are making progress. The questions I ask about Hebrew grammar are usually answered, often quickly. (Thank you, guys!) The site is substantially better than it was 6 months or a year ago.

Of course, I also keep noticing a lot of old errors that haven't been fixed, and keep finding additional errors that need to be flagged. (I'm doing my part to keep them busy.)

Let's look at it positively. When the Messiah comes, it will surely all get straightened out.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mabel544786

Thank you for explaining this to us! And it is so much better with human voices than with machines "speaking"! All respect to volountairs, I thought they were paid. So from now on I will not critize, but if I think that I am able to, I will come with constructive ideas, but without the feeling of being in any right to claime any perfection.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Helen613612

Well said, LSadun! Teamwork's better than complaining.

Zephaniah 3:9 כִּֽי־אָ֛ז אֶהְפֹּ֥ךְ אֶל־עַמִּ֖ים שָׂפָ֣ה בְרוּרָ֑ה לִקְרֹ֤א כֻלָּם֙ בְּשֵׁ֣ם יְהוָ֔ה לְעָבְד֖וֹ שְׁכֶ֥ם אֶחָֽד׃


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jonasklingberg

A completely nonsensical sentence in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sylvie954844

Incorrect English grammar


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChrisEmme1

The sentence must be:did(sentence for a past lesson only) she already give it back.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeahLapidus

VERY VERY hard to discern what she was saying here


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tanya552904

Yeah couldnt hear properly


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TkcI12

Nonsense English

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