I really find the "don't make mistakes" mentality of the current practice system discouraging.
In timed practice you can basically only answer things you know very well , and you don't get the opportunity to learn from the mistakes you make when you don't know the answer.
In normal practice you get to only make mistakes a few times and then you have to start all over. plus if you fail to finish the lesson you don't get any points.
I think there should be a third option where you are presented with unlimited number of questions one after the other until you get sick of practicing, without worrying about hearts or time. questions answered incorrectly appear often and vice versa. You could give points for each correct answer or for reaching x number of correct answers.
I simply want a way to learn without frustration and without being afraid of making mistakes, also I want to keep my streak without using legitimate cheating (answering one question in timed practice is far easier than trying to do a lesson 3 times and not getting a single point)
I agree completely! This is one reason why immersion into a language is such an effective tool... you make mistakes, native speakers correct you, and then you correct yourself - thus, learning. It is also partly why kids pick up on languages so quickly; they, unlike many adults, are not afraid to make mistakes and grow from them. Un-timed practice on Duolingo is frustrating because failure results in zero progress (and no opportunity to correct yourself), which gets very discouraging very quickly; meanwhile, timed practice is so rushed that there is no opportunity to actually stop and learn from your mistakes, or even to read what the correct answer would have been. Oftentimes, if I'm drawing a blank, I just use the skip button so as not to lose any precious time and have to start all over - but I learn absolutely nothing by doing that.
I don't need to reinforce what I can already do flawlessly, I need to learn from my mistakes. At the very least, I'd like to see a review at the end of each practice that allows me to see what I did wrong.
On a side note: I also find the skill system in this new interface to be a little... odd. I've gone to strengthen deteriorating skills from 4/5 to 5/5 by doing timed practice, gotten all of one answer correct (and 3-4 wrong) before time runs out, and, lo and behold, my skill strength is 100% again. Really?
Agree, timed practice is only good for short sentences and things you already know well. Otherwise, you don't have time to think, you don't have time to discuss, and even if you want to discuss, it'll close the window on you while you're reading! The only purpose the timer serves is cutting short your learning. Or maybe forcing you to learn to type faster. They should at least pause the timer when you err.
As for untimed practice, they could change it so that you don't fail it, but you have to keep practicing until you clear the bar. For instance, if you err three times, then it gives you 3 more hearts but extends the practice by 15 more problems.
"Un-timed practice on Duolingo is frustrating because failure results in zero progress"
Did you really not make any progress there? Next time, I won't be making the same mistakes, and I'm fairly certain the 'penalty' of having to start all over contributed to that...
I agree with you 101%. I have the same frustrations that you have. The problem is that duolingo is targeted at gamers. People like to play games and the game industry is very profitable. This applies for consoles and PCs as well as for smartphones and tablets. They are trying to be both game-like as well as educational. Luis saw that people lose a lot of time playing games and he's trying to make that time useful. Unfortunately not all of us like games or would like to learn by playing.
As a lover of online games, and one of many who joined this site specifically BECAUSE being based on games made it interesting and IMO fun, I think a distinction should be made between completing lessons and general practice to strengthen words/skills that you've already learned. Completing a new lesson is like fighting a boss; you get a few lives before you have to start over, but it's also very specific thing you're trying to defeat and then you're done. But practicing to strengthen words is more like grinding for experience in an MMO; the goal is the accumulation of many many problems answered correctly (think individual enemies killed) so breaking it up into short segments, and refusing to award any experience (points/coins or, more importantly, word strengthening) for problems answered correctly before running out of hearts, both seem to me to be counterproductive. A successful game is one that tricks people into spending hours and hours practicing and losing track of the time on their way to killing 1000 mushrooms or gaining enough experience to hit the next level, whereas now that I've completed my tree, Duolingo's practice mode seems to be designed to encourage me to stop and do something else.
Some games have something called "god mode" where you just keep playing as long as you like. So it possible to still keep the gaming aspect and allow for infinite practice. Although I have mixed thoughts about it.
I thought about that when I started the discussion but, since we're talking about "lesson practice" why should I be limited in one way or another? I'm practicing. I think the hearts should remain when you try to finish a skill and move forward in the tree which will keep the gaming aspect intact.
Currently there is a weak correlation between skill improvement and progress. I can move down the skill tree (progress) without actually learning much(skill level), yet they are both treated the same when it comes to points and streaks.
I think they should separate the way they award you for practicing and the way they award you for making progress. Streaks should be kept for when you practice and improve your skill and badges, achievements, and medals (or anything like that) should be given for when you make progress on the skill tree.
Maybe give me a star for each heart at the end of a skill test! that way if I finish the lesson (after practicing a lot without limitation) with three hearts I get a shiny 3 stars under the skill.
I think your idea makes sense to add as an option. As long as they keep the current options also, because I like them. Currently, when I want to keep my streak and just practice without too much stress, I just do a lesson I've done before. It keeps my streak and motivation intact, and even though it's not new material, after a while has passed some of it seems like new material! I also like having to do a lesson over again if I lose all the hearts. It means I really sucked at it so I need the practice. (I can see though how it can be disHEARTening ;) )
I beg to differ, I am a gamer, but I find the 3 mistakes limit during practice discouraging. Especially if I practice verbs conjugation and I lose hearts for some puny articles.
Yes, but although frustrating, shouldn't we be forced to learn the articles at some point? They matter too -- so since we are still messing those up, we clearly need more practice. Just because we may be focused on a new topic doesn't mean that we should be allowed to slack/forget the earlier concepts. Because although this is kind of game-esque -- it's much more. It's learning to communicate! This means learning the articles too.
Don't get me wrong -- I mess up on those all the time. But now I do a better job all around.
Oh, believe me, I do know that articles matter. I'm just saying that there are situations when these errors should be treated lightly, for example during lesson concerning verbs or adjectives. When I strengthen skills or testing skills out, then by all means, slug me for whatever mistake I make. The alternative could be to reflect the mistakes concerning other skill set in strength bars for corresponding lessons. I think it would be more effective with French, for example.
Yes, yes, yes! Please, please, give us unlimited free practice, that's a thing I've wanted for a long time! I don't care about points and all that gamey stuff. The single most annoying thing here is that, when I don't pass a lesson at first try, i have to re-type (or copy and paste) answers which I got perfectly right the first time again and again. That's so useless and frustrating.
I also would like to be able to try out different solutions to a translation question, to see what works and what doesn't.
I completely agree. Currently I try to score about 500 points a day with practising Italian. It's kind of a long time ago I finished that tree and since then I've forgotten quite a lot (and most of my skills have decayed into one or two bars, old style).
So, I practise skill by skill. On the first try I usually get long sentences English - Italian. These are kind of impossible to do, especially in timed practise, since yes, I've forgotten most words. If I (against better judgements) keep doing timed practise at this stage Duo will eventually cycle through all the words and return to the ones I got on the first practise try. I will have remembered some of the words and some of the sentences and slowly but steadily I'll improve. I earn most points if I do it this way.
I can also do regular practise. Again I'd get annoyingly long English - Italian sentences at first, so it's nearly impossible get to the end of a practise on the first try, but if I do fail, I'll get about the same words and sentences again, so after a while I'll get through and move on to the next set of words and sentences and this I can repeat until I'm back at the beginning. This results in far fewer points.
Both methods are annoying:
In timed practise you can't review, so I keep notepad open to copy paste the more difficult / interesting / funny into. Later on, I'll write them down so I remember them better (and to practise my writing skills :P ). Multiple choice exercises are even more useless than in regular mode because, to save time, you can usually skip reading the sentence you're supposed to translate and just pick the most natural solution (the one without the weird verb or double preposition and with correct agreement). So in the end I don't know the original sentence, I don't know the translated sentence, but I've got a point and some extra time.
In normal mode you can only make three mistakes until an annoying owl shows up suggesting you should by a heart refill. 'Yes I know that' (through gritted teeth). Now I'm not completely against hearts as a way of testing you're ready for the next skill in the tree, but for bleeps sake, I'm practising, I know I don't know everything anymore and I'm trying to change that. It is nice however, that I can take my time with each sentence, consider its structure and make a note about it, if need be.
Both methods break your work flow and add a few clicks by inserting an end-of-the-practise-screen after twenty exercises. Note that you can have up to about 70 words in a skill so even each sentence highlights a different word you may have to practise up to four times to see them all.
It may be subjective, but I get the feeling the sentences get easier the more and more I practise a skill. Yes I'm learning the words, but it seems as if I get more Italian - English questions the more I practise a skill.
It's also quite weird that even after 400 or 500 points of practising (Italian Adverbs 1 for example) I still get a 'new' sentence occasionally while other sentences have appeared over a dozen of times ('Leggo spesso' - 'I read often' comes to mind). I'm quite familiar with the birthday paradox¹, but this feels quite extreme. Furthermore, some sentences seem to only appear one way, either Italian - English or English - Italian. Some I only seem to get as multiple choice, as if Duo doesn't have the confidence I can write it myself by now.
So I would really welcome a mode where you can practise a skill infinitely and where you get more challenging sentences and question types the more you practise. :)
Sorry, it's not related to your answer, but er... How did you manage to type a superscript? :s
Hm, none of them seems to work for me, even after trying both UK International & US keyboards. Oh well, I've bookmarked the table now, thanks anyway :)
I understand every single comment and frustration on this page. But my belief in DL remains undiminished. When I lost hearts in Basics 1 or 2, or several units or many many units later..... because I had written 'the' instead of 'a' or 'an' definie article. etc.... I wanted to kick the computer to the floor....but my word....did I learn quickly, not to get things wrong" I'm in a lesson, where ther are tenses I haven't seen. or nouns I don't know (Though these seem to get a lot less cos we do learn a hell of a lot of vocab on DL) - I get every word in a sentence right, includint the new 'verb form' or whatever that I'm learning. DL takes a heart because somewhere in a longish sentence I have written 'a' instead of 'the'
Am I annoyed? only a little bit, when I have got so much right. But I remember next time to think about 'the' or 'a' ...è una buona lezione.
While many of us (myself included) would like to have "Unlimited Practice," I think we need to bear in mind the ingenious business structure that makes this amazing free service available to us all. Duolingo's main source of revenue comes from payments made by websites like CNN and BuzzFeed for translations that us users help produce in the Immersion section. In a sense, the Immersion option is the closest thing we get to "Unlimited Practice": we get unlimited time and unlimited "lives", encountering an unlimited variety of content, all while earning a a nice cache of coins in the process.
Duo providing a low-key de-gamified "Unlimited Practice Mode" might neutralize the appeal of tapping into the Immersion option, thereby choking off Duo's main source of revenue. This is my own speculation as I do not work for Duo. So despite my own desire to have an "Unlimited Practice" option, I would not want any changes to the website that might jeopardize the income stream that makes Duolingo free and available in the first place.
You make a good point about the Duolingo's business model. Still, I could think of ways you could incorporate that into "unlimited practice." For instance, what if every fifth or tenth question provided you with a translation from immersion and asked which of the choices seemed best, with a penalty-free option to pass if you really didn't know, or to offer your own translation if you could do better? When I first tried Duolingo long ago, you used to have to attempt a translation to finish a lesson. Not it seems more optional, however I bet the clever folks at Duolingo could figure out to give us the best of both worlds yet again. :)
I imagine they wouldn't have ditched that mechanic unless they found something that worked better. But, I also imagine that the Duolingo we see today will probably be different from the Duolingo we'll see in 2 years. So, who knows what they'll come up with next. :)
I agree with Pupstar, you can't have something good and expect it to last by eroding the mechanics. The good news is, Duolingo won't change it unless there is a way to safeguard Immersion. My main concern is what features will help keep the website free to millions of users, present and future, and how changing those features might positively or negatively affect Duolingo's ability to do that.
I don't mind not getting points if I don't finish a lesson, but I wish you would get credit for your streak by just practicing anything, not by earning points. If I do a lesson 3 or 4 times and fail it by one question the fourth time it's kind of disheartening to know that I will have to answer one timed question or do an immersion sentence to get my streak for the day if I have run out of duolingo time. Points aren't important to me but I'm proud that I've kept up my streak!
Other legitimate methods to "cheating" your way to maintaining your streak.
- One sentence on immersion.
- Review Basics 1 on timed or untimed.
P.S. In my experience, using timed practice on material that you are unfamiliar with can mess up Duolingo's algorithm's that presents you with material for which your knowledge is weak.
I reserve the timed practice for reviewing material (especially when I want to work on speedy recollection)
Another thing to consider.... Hopefully, most days you have the time to really spend some time doing Duolingo. Those are the days that you should work on new material. However, if all you have time for on one day is one lesson, then, it should be a Review lesson. If you choose an appropriate review lesson, then you won't have to worry about making mistakes.
I am repeating a lot of other people but i too agree whole heartedly. It would be better if they let us repeat the question we get wrong, so we learn from our mistakes better. And I like your idea.
When I start a lesson and I lose a heart or two in the first, say, six questions, I scrap the lesson and start again. This means that I've had a bit of a warm-up for the lesson and then rarely find I'm out of hearts on the last couple of questions. I also always keep an extra heart bought with lingots. This means I rarely feel disheartened. I quite like the gamey aspect of Duo as it gives me clearly defined goals and I can measure progress. If I did just general revision elsewhere it would get very vague. My main frustration is valid answers that aren't accepted and trying to remember for next time that question comes round.
I try to keep my daily session mainly untimed practice so I can read comments and do some timed practice to get my speed up and a few quick points. I aim for at least 50 points a day. It's very rare I finish a lesson without losing any hearts (I make lots of silly mistakes) so I earn lingots by doing the double-or-nothing wager and I use them for buying extra hearts.
I've finished my tree now so just let Duo decide what I need to practice (Is there a difference between lesson practice on the home page and 'Practice Weakest Words' on the vocab page?)
Would love to read other people's strategies/game plans!
This is pretty much what I do, except for the extra hearts that I've never learnt to use, for some reason. The "warm-up rounds" have become essential after the grammar explanations and alike from the beginning of categories were beamed back to the mothership or whatever (What gives? Surely they weren't useless?) and I'm just left with jumping into the game and banging wrong answers so many times that I start to get an idea of what a "present perfect" actually is. Glad to know I'm not the only one who copies massive phrases to notepad for review :D One other thing I use... I keep another tab open with the category overview, so that I can review the words that are supposedly in that lesson. That way I can kind of get an idea of what word I'm supposed to use when the dictionary isn't helping.
Unlimited timed practice is an excellent suggestion in my opinion. Just make it outside the xp-system if that's what it takes.
Ooh, and if it's not deliberate on the creators' part (might very well be), include the genders of nouns in the dictionary! Or make it so that a mistake in that department is only worth half a heart or something. I feel it's too rough when I get everything exactly right but lose a whole heart because I, once again, have no idea about the gender of a noun :D
Another tab with the vocabulary and you could check the gender of a noun until you learn it. Then do without to test.
Probably I am only the second person to comment the other way, but I think an unlimited practice session that nets the user the same "rewards" as game play would diminish Duolingo.
Duolingo is a learning environment intended to make use of game play. Games have "practice" modes with unlimited lives and zero-pressure. Typically none of the points scored in that mode will carry over when the player resumes game play. The reason is simple: games are challenging and practice is not.
I have shared the voiced frustrations. Really I have groaned as loud as some have mentioned here. And when my streak eventually ends, then que sera sera. But I think Duolingo has plenty of stress-relief from heart-restorers to streak freezes.
What you are asking for if it were granted in the form you asked for would diminish Duolingo's effectiveness. And thus hurt users. And if it were granted as a practice-only no-points no-streak environment, then you'd probably be bored of it or never use it. Because the fun has a lot to do with the game.
I can agree with the position of withholding points (in fact, I think it is a great idea!), but I still feel that an infinite, un-timed, non-consequential mode would be frequented enough to at least be considered.
I think this is the most requested feature. I've asked for it myself and seen several people requesting it. Unfortunately, judging by what I hear from moderators and DuoLingo employees, it is not going to happen. Somehow it conflicts with The Methodology.
Luckily you can emulate it using existing timed practice:
Open settings and disable sounds. They will be really annoying if you don't.
Open https://www.duolingo.com/practice in many tabs. Say if you plan to spend 10 minutes, you will need about 15 tabs. Middle clicking "Strengthen skills" on the home page works.
Now select the first tab, press Enter to start Timed Practice.
Do it as if there was no timer. Take you time to think, look up words, report problems. 30 seconds should be enough to answer at least one question. Typically 2-3.
When time is up or not enough for the next question switch to the next tab. Rinse and repeat...
The idea is basically to avoid wasting time on the final animation and waiting for timed practice to reload by always having one preloaded.
You may also want to install a browser extension that can reload all tabs in a window at once.
A few months ago I wrote a comment about various structural problems with Duolingo’s training system, which is partly related to this: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/1146708
I didn’t get any specific answers from the developers, though, apart from ”We're in fact working on improving all of your points".
This goes along with another topic on the discussion board, BRING BACK THE EDIT FEATURE! We used to be able to correct small mistakes with a hint. Now that is completely gone. Also, I feel like the newer version doesn't give barely any wiggle room if you misspell in the tiniest way!
To be honest I view unlimited practice as the normal practice over and over, It´s essentially the same thing. The timed practice I perceive as being used to increase the speed of the answers you give, so helping you in a different way!
I do agree with you about the one question in timed practice! it´s a strange idea which I haven´t been able to ascertain the reason for.
nice thinking. that is a great idea. hope that duolingo will listen to you. I agree a lot. I usually get bored with duolingo because of how small it is. I would like duolingo to expand and they could add another lesson mode ( like you said the unlimited practising).
"Hearts are a penalty." "1 point in Timed practice is a cheat." This is a good example of how there is not going to be a way to satisfy everyone.
Cheaters are going to cheat. People who are here to learn will learn. There is the option to practice 16-20 or something answers with 4 chances. Make 4 typos, or get 4 questions wrong and you walk away with no points. And there is a Timed practice that gives you 30 seconds to make a point (more if you get correct answers). So long as you don't run out of times, you can get up to 20 points for answering questions. But, even if you run out of time, you get to keep a point for each correct answer you give.
I think they balance each other out well.
Hold your horses. While the idea sounds great in theory, will it really contribute to learning? The gamification-aspect of Duo's practice rounds shouldn't be underestimated. Some of us may unconsciously perform better under pressure - it may even help you remember your mistakes. Instead of just skipping any errors you make, you're actually forced to stop for a moment because you lost your hearts, or because you're almost out of time.
Of course, this is also just a theory. We can't be sure until Duo tries it. It sounds like we've plenty of beta-testers in this thread.
I think it will. I don't care much about points, streaks, lingots, leaderboards etc. I only use points as a guideline, an indication of how much I've done on a given day.
I understand that gamification is part of the appeal for a large group of users, as a way to keep themselves motivated but I know there's also a considerable number who don't like the whole game aspect at all. I think it's kind of unfair to deny the latter group a mode that the former wouldn't use at all.
I learn for my own sake, be it science on Udacity, Russian touch typing on Keybr, playing a song on my keyboard or languages on DuoLingo. The feeling I've learned a new concept, noticing that I can type or play fluently or that I'm now able to read a site / newspaper / book in a certain language is wat motivates me, not some abritrary number that I can boast about to others. To quote one of my favourite books:
Il y a une difference énorme entre celui qui cherche à se dépasser et celui qui veut être le meilleur. Le premier travaille sur lui le second par rapport aux autres.
So, I'm not asking anyone to give up a beloved part of DuoLingo, I'm just asking for a mode where I can practise a certain skill (or the whole tree) infinitely. If need be without points, streaks or lingots, in case you think I am cheating that way.
You're absolutely right. Anyone should be able to choose between doing this for points, to show off their streak, or just for fun/learning/both. I don't necessarily mean that that part of the gamification-aspect will contribute to performance.
However, consider the following. What happens during practice when you run out of hearts? You have to start over again. Whether you see this is challenging, or demotivating, or something else entirely; anyone in their right mind will try to avoid this. I mean, just look at the content of this thread! Noone here likes it when they have to start over, and most here choose the easy way out, namely "changing the system". Note that there is an other option "not making the same mistakes".
I'm not saying that the current system is flawless. It's definitely worthwile to try other methods - the userbase is pretty huge, so it shouldn't be a problem. It's just that it's perhaps a sort of tradeoff between user performance and customer satisfaction. The new design is a good example, Duo's metrics showed that performance improved due to it, but the number of complaints skyrocketed after the change.
Duolingo should use questionnaires or something similar to measure 'customer satisfaction' instead of just using metrics like 'time spent on site'. The amount of reactions and votes here shows that clearly, not everyone is content with the current system!
Duolingo has in effect made time practice at least twice as easy to obtain points as the non-time practice. And a lot people like myself set a daily point goal. So anyone struggling with staying motivated (like myself) naturally will do the easier time practice more to get those points. Yeah the mature thing would be just accept 1/2 the points from the non-timed practice and focus on learning things you do not know but a lot people's brains read it as a goal failure if they did not duolingo would not have used any gamification from the git goal.
This is a great idea. Unlimited practice (timed or untimed) could also be made part of the "game." (If it were timed, then maybe you would have x amount of seconds for each answer.) For example, you could build streaks of correct answers. Right now, you get 13 points (I think) for completing 20 questions all correct. What if you just got 1/2 point for every correct answer until you miss something, and that might cause you to lose a full point or two? I wonder how many people would go for a streak of 100 perfect answers? I'm pretty sure I would.
I agree! If there was such a mode for duolingo, I feel that I would be compelled to practice more because I wouldn't be limited by the mistakes I make. The hearts get discouraging at times, but they can also be a challenge (seeing how many hearts you can finish with). Such a mode could be independent of the conceptual mode offered now. The current way is a good one, in which skills are cut into smaller lessons. However, this isn't the way a child learns a language. The natural way is immersion. If there were a mode where you could practice all skills, infinitely, and with gaining complexity as more questions were answered correctly, then I think this would offer a better understanding of how the language works. In essence, this duolingo mode would be a way to practice the vocabulary and sentence structure that you've learned (and maybe even some of what's to come) without the consequences of getting things wrong. Moreover, this mode could eventually "adapt" to what you know and don't know. Concepts and vocabulary that you get right frequently appear less often, and ones you get wrong occur more frequently. This would help reinforce weaker areas of the language for each individual.
Yes!! this idea has been in my head for a long time! Glad I am not the only one. Let's hope they will implement it. :)
This is something I've wanted for a long time, I'd absolutely love an unlimited feature.
I think this may be the single greatest post on this thread. Why does it not get more attention?
Excellent, excellent! Have a lingot. What is most frustrating, is when an answer IS correct but it is marked wrong. I am a native French speaker, and this usually happens when I use a synonym I am more familiar with of the word Duolingo was looking for, but it is marked wrong! It is quite discouraging.
I also think it would be very useful to be able to practice one specific "sub-activity". Each activity is broken down into choosing from a drop down list, translating, transcribing, speaking into the microphone, choosing from 3 options, etc. I would like to be able to practice just one of those skills, as my transcribing is a lot weaker than the other skills.
I agree on the sub-activity stuff, I always celebrate when I get a 'microphone task' on the last one with no hearts left, because then I know I have already succeeded :)
I experienced a bug today and it was glorious!
I cannot dig the untimed practice. I work through it, and on those occasions when I lose all the hearts I get nothing for the progress. Waste of time. I prefer to do the timed practice so I get something for every right answer even if it means my typical timed round results in an increase of 1 to 4 hearts before the timer runs out on me.
Occasionally I can complete a good run and get 10 or more, but usually it is 45 seconds of practice and restart, repeat until I am tired of all the time spent starting another practice run.
Today there was a bug for a few rounds - the timer would start at 30 seconds, but after I answered one correct response it would add an HOUR on top of the normal increase in time.
So, effectively I had unlimited practice time. I was engaged. I spent more time reading carefully and considering my wrong responses because I had no time pressure. I finished the 20 question rounds with anywhere from 10 to 19 correct responses.
It was not a speed typing contest! For the first time I did not skip the "ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, sixty, seventy, eighty, ninety, one hundred" translation out of a feeling that it was a waste of valuable seconds to even try to do that much typing (and in the process learned of/noticed for the first time the s on the end of quatre-vingts!).
And then as quickly as this had arrived, it was gone.
I have seen the promise of unlimited practice and it was glorious.
This is an awesome idea! I have often thought the same thing. I think it would be ideal if they made it so for every answer you get right you get like 1 coin or 1/2 a coin or whatever and you just keep stacking up your coins based on how many words you are getting wrong. I feel like we would all be more accurately assessed.
Good point. It could also be combined with registering which words you got wrong, it'd defo be helpful with languages as German or French, when it's far too easy to get gender wrong.
The vocabulary tab is useful, because it lists which specific words you need to practice.
There is a solution! I use duolingo on the web. For lessons, when I make a mistake and lose a heart, I just hit Ctrl-R in the browser to refresh the page. This starts the lesson from the beginning, and so I get my 1 lingo when I eventually finish the lesson with 3 hearts. This is equivalent to a never ending practice mode. The 'Lesson practice' mode does have one more screen when you hit refresh, but it's okay. Note, I'm still on the old user interface, so I don't know if this works well for the new version.
This is cheating :) If I loose heart I do the lesson anyway - to punish myself and gain XP points :)
It's not cheating, because this way I double practise the previous bits, which are necessarily newer in your head (compared to general lesson practice). It actually takes a lot of discipline to Ctrl-R when you're right at the end of the lesson and you've just lost a heart... especially on your 3rd attempt. Try it and see :-) What you lose in XP points you make up for in rigour :-)
That's mixed, I'd say it's about 70% the same. Seems to depend on the skill. The order tends to also be about 70% the same, but not always. Sometimes the last question I answered wrong is the first one.... Also sometimes it's converting english to french, other times it's the other way around... etc.
For me, in order to learn it, I'll just have to memorize what its saying. Secondly, I'll have a translating website open for something I just don't know or understand completely or at all. This is going to sound weird but I like the "frustration" that I get from failing and not stop trying until I surpass that lesson.
I agree strongly but it would be a lot of coins you gain. however this is easily advodilbele
You bring up a very good point. And this is of course the challenge faced by DuoLingo in making language learning into a game. In theory most language learners would love to spend an unlimited amount of time and practice simply for the sake of learning the language. The honest truth is, I have wanted to learn Spanish for almost 10 years. I have lived in Miami of all places for 6 years and I've tried Rosetta Stone and taken sit down traditional classes. The genius of DuoLingo is that it is structured like a game. While points and hearts may not be necessary to learn a language, this is the driving motivational force that me and you love and come back to learn from. It seems to me, that language learning is two parts - motivation and practice.
That said - I think they should absolutely incorporate a way that is still game-like that allows you to review what you missed and why you missed it, and a way to allow you unlimited free practice.
I think this system works well. I don't see why the system is discouraging; you make mistakes because you are learning and going back to the beginning means you get more practice. I haven't worked on timed practice yet, but for the regular practice, I like this system.
"In normal practice you get to only make mistakes a few times and then you have to start all over. plus if you fail to finish the lesson you don't get any points." — You start all over and next time you will do better to get those points you missed. That's the whole point.
I agree. And not only does timed practice cause you to not read the correct solution, but also to abandon any accents, because it's tolerated when they are missing.
I agree, it really stops motivating me when I end up losing hearts or run out of time in timed practice, lie I haven't done well enough. In timed practice I don't even have time to look at the corrections to see what I did wrong, but I think that the idea of thinking on the spot is good. Maybe pause the time after each question so you can see where you went wrong and move on in your own time?
This idea would mean that I would practice more and learn without freaking out.
To be honest, I almost never practiced on Doulingo, because of the things you've mentioned. I feel like the timed practice doesn't help me at all, and I can barely finish the normal practice. I realy support your suggestion, it will help me SO MUCH!
HatemShah is right on point. It is a hindrance to learning and practicing when I am fearful of making a mistake and losing hearts that cause me to have to begin again. Having a practice only session that I could repeat until I am ready to go to the test of losing hearts is a much better way. Please consider making this addition to an otherwise good program.
I fully agree with you..its look like i have a stress of fear to make wrong answers ..cause perhaps my english is weak.and it is annoying to repaet many time the same..(((
I also hate it when I lose a heart when I accidentaly type in a wrong word. Sometimes it says I have a typo, but sometimes the speaker messes up and I accidentaly type in the wrong thing.
Agreed. Many times I have lost all three hearts before the end of a lesson and I would have to start over. Give us the ability to constantly practice new words without any heart limits. Great idea.
You can practice any particular word in the vocabulary section. It will give you the variations for the one word and you are likely to know it after that. Look up the word and then you will be offered a chance to practice it. I recommend untimed for this.
Yes, but that is not unlimited. Also, I am hearing that new web version of duolingo has removed that.
Oh dear! I love the vocabulary section. I go from word to word on untimed working on least known words to better known. It would be faster in an unlimited mode and this would be a good place to put it.
I set aside time to review mistakes (sometimes I just look at the alternate translation, other times I check the comments) in Timed Practice. The cut off when time is up is the only downside. If I only end up answering three/twenty questions because of it, I can just do another one.
This doesn't help with the tiny mistakes that most of us are talking about. Also, what many are pointing out correctly is that if you get to correct your mistake, you learn better, as opposed to just getting it wrong, glancing at it, and going to the next problem. I don't think any of us are proposing that you can make huge errors and get to correct them.
I can't see anything in the original post about correcting errors, only removing time/hearts pressure. I feel like you're disagreeing with me on something I haven't commented on.
For what it's worth I do think being able to correct your mistakes is good.
Yeah, uh. I'm a dodo. I'm also following the discussion on correcting mistakes. I got mixed up. Sorry!
i'm with you but there's the practice without a timer! I always use this option, so I can take my time and now when I wanna do timed practice, It just so fluent and fast! I really learn from that.
If they do, I bet they lower the point value to 1/8 coin per answer, otherwise people would abandon Immersion.
That's been my view. The computer should maintain awareness of one's weaknesses and repeat the problems one is failing at. Totally concur. This will allow one to get progressively stronger. And at the fastest possible rate.
I don't play time clock games, never have, never will. They can't advantage me.
I'm trying to figure out if you're getting down votes because people don't realize you're being sarcastic, or because they do.. >.>
i was not being sarcastic.....this is the thing i want most. I might be getting down votes because of the "please stop all progress on other things" or all caps.
But they can never take my lingot away!
Well, I think they sent me an invite for a couple of reasons. I spent a ton of time everyday on Duolingo, I can't recall ever violating the guidelines, I just tried to be as helpful as I could be to other users and not bully anyone. I never asked to become a moderator, but, other moderators and users suggested to the manager that I should become a moderator. Then one day I had an invite in my inbox and I decided to accept since I love Duolingo and the community here so much. And now here I am as a moderator :) It's a lot more work than I thought it would be though. I get to see the best and worst sides of people. But, I think everyone has good and bad days. Getting to help out extra makes it worth it. ^_^
I'll agree with you in that the frustration factor would dissipate as a result of your idea, but I disagree on the basis of your motivation to come up with this idea. ---
"also I want to keep my streak without using legitimate cheating" ---
Other than to earn lingots and show off your dedication to this site and its cause, I do not see the benefit of having a high streak. I believe if you want to turn your tree golden, then you should work for it. Learn the right way to word it so that Duo gives you some points. Read and participate in the discussions, etcetera... everything that you probably already do now to keep such a high streak.
In short, if you're finding yourself wanting the highest score, then you're learning the language the wrong way. I like it just as much as the next person to turn everything gold as if I accomplished a great deal. I get it, and I agree that it is wonderful to be able to look at your work and completion, and I very much like how this site has laid it out for us.
You'll never learn a language effectively if you're actively ignoring a challenge. If Duolingo were to offer this unlimited practice mode, I would suggest that nothing is gained from it (other than the practice and knowledge that is wanted) I'll never forget, growing up with my mexican friends, finding out about the subjunctive. It frustrated me so much to hear "tenga" for the first time after I thought I had learned all of the tenses that I needed to know. Luckily, I was studying spanish in high school at the time and was able to ask my teacher about it. I felt so floored to hear that there were about 5 or 6 other tenses (perfect tenses that I had not yet learned) that I didn't know yet. I thought I would never learn the language. Had I not had hispanic friends to practice with, I think I may have been tempted to give up on the language.
Anyway. great idea but I don't agree with the practice being helpful to your score. Get frustrated, take a break, try again, fail, have an anxiety attack, eat dinner, go to sleep, try again the next day, repeat..
I'm setting up Practice Sets so I can reuse them as much and whenever I want. Thanks to DL member "wazzie " who gave me the idea and location. Unlimited Practice is very easily accomplished using this format and location. Quizlet is free and provides Spanish translation for your flash cards you set up as well as other languages. This is my location. "http://www.quizlet.com/in2languages
Having hearts or timed practice may be the unique tools of Duolingo differently than others. I first thought when I saw this system , I felt like it is pretty cool and fresh, and since I heard your insist, I came to think of it more.. I'm now in the neutral position of your new insist and the original system of Duolingo. Maybe, Duolingo team has made this , imagining of the students who constantly repeat the classes and , get more accurate and better skills in language by limited hearts and time.
Ola,looking for a nice friend who help to improve a Portugues (Lisbon) language , skype minx991. Obrigada .
This is a great idea. What would be neat is to have this option and have it show you your longest streak without an error. That way you could play to beat yourself, which is always a nice motivator.
To all those who want to have unlimited practice (like me): have you tried creating a second account, and doing the placement test? It will give you 30 questions in a row, of great variety, and no repetition. Of course the extra challenge is that there is no peek on words, but I found it quite challenging and inspiring, much more interesting than the usual practice. At the end you can delete the progress and do it again!
Creating extra profiles throws off the metrics... I don't recommend it for people who want changes to Duolingo to reflect accurate data.
I disagree. I feel like I'm more inclined to attempt to reason through the translation instead of relying on learning by rote memorization. What I would like to see is better documentation and explanations for each case. There also needs to be better feedback in regards to the pieces of the translation that we get wrong. When I get something wrong in my college German class, my teacher can easily point out to me which part of the sentence is incorrect and explain it to me in real time. This is a major aspect that Duolingo is missing. So, I don't think the untimed practice system needs to change, but the way in which the "lessons" are presented does.
I think that is a good idea, HatemShah. But I don't think we should get rid of the other methods. They're especially good for kids, since timed makes it seem like a game. I think timed practice/ regular practice make it interesting and fun, whereas drilling might get a little dull.
Relatedly, I'd like it if I didn't always have to click through "you can buy timed practice!" to get to the existing untimed practice. It's gratuitously annoying.
I would like to see an unlimited/infinite practice option/mode as well HatemShah, I have given about 12 Lingots to your discussion hoping that Duolingo will add this option/mode, thank you for starting this discussion. :)