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  5. "הסוס אצלךָ?"

"הסוס אצלךָ?"

Translation:Is the horse at yours?

July 28, 2016

58 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GerryVeenendaal

I am not a native English speaker, but the sentence: "Is the horse at yours?" sounds very strange to me, while the sentence "Is the horse with you" just sounds normal.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

Agreed. "Is the horse at your HOUSE?" sounds OK (and isn't accepted), as does "Is the horse with you?" (with a different meaning) but nobody in Texas would ever say "Is the horse at yours".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/leaderdmd

All o y'all are right!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nunchler

I am a native English speaker and I agree, the only way I could see "Is the horse at yours?" happening naturally is in a really specific conversational context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/linguat0r

What situation will need to happen I'll say such phrase?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

I don't see the cat at our house. Is the cat at yours?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

The word אצלךָ really means "at your place" and so you might say it about a cat: החתול אצלה, "the cat is at her place."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hopebradley1

I'm English and I'm really surprised nobody has heard this before?! It's very common here, it's what we'd say to ask if something/someone was at another person's (usually) house. The "yours" being your place.

e.g. Did I leave my jacket at yours last night? Let's just go to yours.

We also use it in reverse, "mine" refers to my place. e.g. Why don't you come to mine this afternoon?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarrieYael

Interesting. We don't say that in the States. We would say, "Did I leave my jacket at your place last night?" or "Let's go to my place."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

interesting, if true


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chanieHoff

She is correct. Duolingo needs to correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

"At yours" just doesn't work in any English I know. Maybe in New Zealand or someplace it's a saying. Plus it's close to "up yours." Maybe it's supposed to mean "with you."


[deactivated user]

    You are right. A rather long time ago, when we were all young, we were sitting at the table one morning and about to pour hot water into our cups to make instant coffee, my brother asked an American friend who was staying with us in Guatemala: -"You like coffee? You want? Up your cup!" Our guest couldn't help but bursting into laughter, although at the time none of us children quite understood why.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Virginia233167

    It's a really, really common British way of saying "at your place."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PennyFore

    Doesn't "is the horse at your house" mean the same thing as "is the horse at your place"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

    House is more specific. Usually it would be a house, but it can mean your palace, your cave, your room. Actually if it's a real horse, your farm or your stable seem to me more likely than your house.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DinaMichae1

    I wrote"the horse is by you?" But i got it wrong, not sure why


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrianTice

    That's much better than the English provided (which sounds like a severed thought).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RebbeBrian

    "By you" is very common Hebronics phraseology, so it seems it should be accepted as a correct translation from Hebrew.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

    What is "Hebronics"? I've never heard that term.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RebbeBrian

    Hebronics is (Ashkenazic) Jewish English. Entire yeshiva courses are dedicated to the phenomenon in NYC yeshivot. Things like "You want I should eat by you?" (instead of "with you") or answering a question with a question, e.g. "How am I? How should I be with this fakachtah goiter?"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

    Is that just a NYC phenomenon? Or, more specifically, of NYC Orthodox communities? Is the term a play on "Ebonics" for Black American English? Having spent my life in Jewish (but not Orthodox) communities across the USA, I'd never heard of it.

    Answering a question with a question is stereotypically Jewish, but I don't think I've every heard anybody outside of New York say You want I should ... instead of You want me to ...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

    Hebronics is a misnomer. The examples you give have nothing to do with Hebrew. They are however typical of a native speaker of Yiddish in an only partly successful effort to change languages. "farkakte" is pure Yiddish, an expletive based on the colloquial Yiddish term for 'to defecate.' (cf. גיי קאקן אפן ים, - gey kakn afn yam). "by you" is a word-for-word imitation of ביי קיר - bay dir. etc . The common term for this is not Hebronics, a clear misnomer, but Yinglish. People also speak of a related phenomenon "Yeshivish".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

    correction: ביי דיר


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tomasello6

    Is the horse at yours? Is not proper English.


    [deactivated user]

      The English statement is incorrect. You don't say that. You have to add the word "place" after the possessive.
      You must keep in mind that the expressio is colloquial and informal, which doesn't mean it is wrong. Just a matter of registers. Which reminds me of an embarrasing experience because of not realising there were such registers as a yioung person. I remember taken a lesson on programming to try and get a job with IBM when I was 17, here in Guatemala. I was asked by the instructor: "Where do you live?" "At my sister's", I answered. -"Your sister's what?" she asked, looking annoyed. -"My sisters place", I said. -"What do you mean? Does she live in a cobweb?", she asked, seemingly happy to make me feel stupid for having used what to me was an everyday expression.

      I am convinced that as an instructor she was wrong for having done this. I never came back after tha, shy as I was.

      But there again, it is good to be able to distinguish between formal and informal.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

      Mayte, you are correct and your teacher must have had little experience in the English-speaking world.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

      With yours, at yours, up yours. LOL. Somehow we know what these mean. I think you're right about the awkwardness of the phrase as presented in DL, but an exception is poetry (but poetry is always an exception): Bob Dylan's brilliant song "I'll keep it with Mine," and Paul Westerberg's "Knockin on Mine": https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xenq68


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarrieYael

      That's interesting. I speak American English natively. Even though "at yours" sounds incomplete to me, "at my sister's" sounds perfectly fine.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

      That's because at my sister's is short for at my sister's place, and our brains can easily fill in the missing word. But there isn't any word you can stick after "at yours" that makes sense.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hebrewninja

      was it hard for anyone else to understand what the audio was saying?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dennis385858

      Yes, l had a problem with the audio too. It sounded like the first syllable of the second word was part of the first word. So i heard הסוסת ... something. Even after playing it a few times.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Swifty652067

      Not a good sentence


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/robolewa

      The translator decided to give me "is the horse at yours"


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tom692410

      I would say the best translation is "in your place". Alas it is not accepted by duolingo and also all the comments by other users here are apparently ignored...


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

      Thanks for chiming in here, which made me dig into this matter. Muraoka (Modern Hebrew for Biblical Scholars, xxxiv) writes that modern Hebrew uses an extremely large number of prepositions and prep. phrases. "One gets the impression of oversupply, a direct result of the symbiosis of multiple layers in ModH, namely BH, RH and ModH." [Biblical Hebrew, Rabbinic Hebrew, and Modern Hebrew.] אצל, according to Giore Etzion (Routledge Introductory Course in Modern Hebrew, 192) also means "in one's possession" (in addition to "at one's place"). An example is הכרטיסים אצלך = יש לך הכרטיסים. Both mean "you have cards." So this sentence in Hebrew, הסוס אצלך, can mean "you have a horse," as a question, "Do you have a horse?" Etzion writes that this prep. typically follows a verb that describes things that you do at a place such as ללון, לבקר, להיות. Since there is no verb here, we aren't given any help about whether this prep. has the locative sense or possession sense.


      [deactivated user]

        הסוס אצלך should be considered right also!


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HelenHowar9

        I agree that the English usage as given here is wrong. "Yours" is not a stand alone word in this context.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nachshon10

        "Is the horse yours?" makes sense. "Is the horse AT yours?", does not make sense.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HTIKVA

        Is the horse at yours? Is this an idiomatic expression? Or English slang? We used the "at yours" back in the late seventies and mid eighties! slang!


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

        See the discussion at the top of the page.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Davidinla

        די קאץ, דער קאטער, in Yiddish. Di kats, der koter.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dedee395090

        No one wiuld say it this way in australia neither . It is time that duo lingo learn english lol


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Max832753

        Is the horse at my'ses? ;)


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BarbaraFin182142

        אף אחד מדבר כזה באנגלית!


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

        Of course they do. Check other comments!


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gyardley

        Barbara might not be technically correct, but she's very close - this is such a rare and tortured construction in English, said by so few people, that it should be fixed.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

        Millions of British English speakers are "so few people"?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gyardley

        I speak British English.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MosheTorto

        This sentance makes no sense in english.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DianeKohn

        Not a good example of proper English.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarrieYael

        I thought the prepositions in this lesson were supposed to use the plural endings, hence אצליך instead of אצלך. Is this not the case? Is there a good way to know which is which?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

        There is no such thing אצליך. If the "yours" refers to plural "you", the Hebrew would be אצלכם or אצלכן.

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