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"The bus is often here."

Translation:A busz gyakran van itt.

July 28, 2016

18 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrubbaFong

An english word for this is "aarrgghh". It is the word to use when Hungarian word order seems random. We are told word order matters, but also that it doesn't matter. That the emphasis comes first, except when it doesn't. In this example, we could be emphasizing "the bus", or the fact that it is "here" (and not over there), or the "often-ness" (it is often here but not right now or sometimes in other places, etc.). It is difficult to guess which context is meant, which in turn makes answering correctly difficult.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregWood15

I think the most natural interpretation of this sentence is that we are discussing the bus and saying that it is often here. So we place "A busz" at the start. Now "often" describes its being "here", so that serves "itt" like an adjective does a noun, so "gyakran itt" become an inseparable unit. And since we are advising that it is "often here", that becomes the focus and is placed before the verb. So we get "A busz gyakran itt van". I hope this helps and gets a nod from any more knowledgeable than myself.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BAUDAISBernard

why "van itt" and not "itt van"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shamarth

"A busz gyakran itt van" is correct as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vvsey

It is a matter of emphasis, but the difference is very small indeed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EndreOlasz

Gyakran itt van a busz.... Gyakran van itt a busz.... Itt van a busz gyakran.... Itt van gyakran a busz.. Minimal differences, no problem.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LobsangC

I would have to try: Gyakran a busz itt van, which I got marked wrong, : ( but it worked in that crazy sentence: Gyakran vagyok ferfi', he said, as he scratched his head.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Plantersnigel

Can someone please explain why the word order "A busz itt van gyakran" is incorrect? There are so many allowed variations that is hard to learn which are no good. Are there some words that always have to be before or after one another for example?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

Gyakran feels so suppressed in that sentence... You take a pretty neutral sentence and add the frequency as the least important part. I think it feels the same kind of weird as "The bus is here often" in English


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Leikesteve

Please do not mark good answers as wrong in that way you can never end a lesson


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sninguistics

How come a busz itt van gyakran was marked wrong? Do adverbs go in an ideal order?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

I think the frequency of some event can never get this unimportant.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidRudel1

And yet the correct translation for "The telephone is here in the afternoon" is presented as "A telefon itt van delután" the structure is the same as "a busz itt van gyakran" It seems like "in the afternoon" is at least as important as "frequently" in the earlier sentence, and it is at the end.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

It's a wrong impression though. Would you say "The bus is here often"? Or "The bus is here always"? Certain words dedicated to frequency are more connected to the verb since their role is similar to stating vs negation, even in English.
At the end of the day, "délután" conveys more than just frequency. for me, "minden délután" starts to sound odd at the end but I wouldn't call it wrong. "gyakran" does nothing but it "qualifies" the action by frequency, it would be odd to change the tone of the sentence by putting it in the less important position.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidRudel1

I cannot judge the Hungarian of course, but in English, all four are reasonable:

He is here often.

He is often here.

He is here always.

He is always here.

There is almost no difference in meaning between the two orders in English. Some may be very slightly more natural in some cases than others, but the difference is slight and more up to personal preference. (I personally would think numbers 2 & 4 are more likely in a case where you are pointing someone out and discussing him, whereas number 1 may be slightly more natural when answering questions about someone who is not present... but other English speakers could easily see it differently---there is really no meaningful difference among the two orders. Emphasis would come via intonation here.

The third one ("He is here always.") may sound a little strange, but it is actually how Matthew 20:28 is frequently translated into English: "...I am with you always...."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrtonPolgr

Well, English usage is an ocean where Hungarian is a glass of water, not being a native, I can only judge statistically. I almost never heard the first and third sentence, if at all. And I'm almost sure the 2nd and 4th options wouldn't be legitimate for "in the afternoon" so the difference does exist.
For intonation, word order should suggest intonation in Hungarian. I don't think it's a good idea to try to override word order by a forced intonation, it would be odd at the very least. "The bus is here, by the way this is often the case." That's how it sounds. Probably the fact that there is no verbal structure for continuous actions doesn't help with it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Boo498233

Why autóbusz and not busz?

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