1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Hungarian
  4. >
  5. "I never see waiters here."

"I never see waiters here."

Translation:Én itt soha nem látok pincéreket.

August 3, 2016

37 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndresCollinucci

This word order is driving me crazy. I can never guess where to put "itt"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChrisCrios

It seems the place in the sentence relates to the emphasis. Polish also has this word-order-governed emphasis. I wish both courses had some additional skills (Emph., Negation Emph., Question Emph. or whatever) where you match the different word orders to English statements with the equivalent emphasis in bold!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChrisCrios

The Irish course has exercises where you match words to their English translation, so shouldn't it be possible to design something?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregWood15

My practice, which Mr. D. generally finds acceptable even if he doesn't suggest it, is to treat it similarly to a preverb. So, when there is no emphasis or negation, stick it immediately in front of the verb, otherwise immediately after it and any preverb that might be present. This also seems to work with "kint" and adverbs, but the "mindig" family are a different kettle of fish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CumberHyarion

How is "Soha nem látók pincéreket itt"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jzsuzsi
Mod
  • 775

látók should be látok, but otherwise your sentence is correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ksenia139960

Why does itt go before soha nem


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Ksenia, apparently we want to put some extra focus on the place ("It is here where I never see waiters"), but there's also no problem with placing it at the end of the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VinnHoward1

I am learning more from reading the comments on the ones i missed...because of word order...and would like to show my gratitude to the word composers with a video message...

https://youtu.be/FHNLdHe8uxY


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ljikontic

is it better to say ''soha sem latok pincereket itt


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kenguruhu

"sem" would add "either" to the sentence. "I never see waiters here either."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Ah, not quite. In this case the difference between using nem and sem is negligible because of the positioning right after soha. It's basically the difference between "never" (soha nem) and "not even ever" (soha sem).

Your sentence.. is technically translatable to multiple Hungarian sentences, depending on what the "either" refers to. I'll go with "waiters":
"Soha pincéreket sem látok itt."

EDIT: The last sentence is not entirely correct, see replies.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vvsey

Now this is a very interesting topic. Your sentence is not quite correct this way ("Soha pincéreket sem látok itt."). The word "soha" still needs a "sem" or "nem" right next to it. It wants to belong to that emphasized "nem"/"sem" in front of the verb. Unless!
Unless we place "soha" somewhere after the verb.
Here are a few variations I would accept:
"Sem"-ing the waiters:
"Soha nem/sem látok pincéreket sem itt."
"Soha nem/sem látok itt pincéreket sem."
"Sem"-ing the place:
"Soha nem/sem látok itt sem pincéreket."
"Soha nem/sem látok pincéreket itt sem."

And now, placing "soha" behind the verb.

"Pincéreket sem látok itt soha."
("Pincéreket sem látok soha itt.")
"Itt pincéreket sem látok soha."
"Itt sem látok pincéreket soha."
"Itt sem látok soha pincéreket."
"Pincéreket itt sem látok soha."

"Nem látok itt sem soha pincéreket."
"Nem látok itt sem pincéreket soha."
"Nem látok pincéreket sem itt soha."
("Nem látok pincéreket sem soha itt.")
"Nem látok pincéreket itt sem soha."
Etc. Etc. Etc...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Ooh, this is one of the things about negations that I hadn't quite gathered yet. Thank you. That shall help me understand negations better. :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vvsey

You are welcome, I am sure you will master this one, too, very soon. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElisabethS832761

I also came up with "Soha nem latok pincereket itt."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vvsey

You probably closely followed the English word order. That is not the most natural order in Hungarian.
The two most natural word order, to me, would be:
"Én itt soha nem látok pincéreket."
"Én soha nem látok itt pincéreket."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_paranoia_

Is "Pincereket soha nem itt látok" correct, if I want to emphasize that it's here that I don't see waiters?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vvsey

To me, this one says something like "As for waiters, I always see them somewhere else, not here." Never here, always somewhere else. The "always somewhere else" is somehow implied.
The original translation more or less already emphasizes the "here". What exactly are you trying to say? Maybe with a little context?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_paranoia_

Thanks for the thoughtful response! I'm a little weak on Hungarian word order, and don't always know what is allowable and what is not. That is along the lines of what I was thinking that word order should mean.

In any case, it sounds like Duolingo should accept it. (Depending on context, the English sentence could be making a strong distinction between here vs someplace else.) I'll report it if it comes up for me again.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vvsey

If you put an extra emphasis on "here", correct? Yeah, I agree, give it a try!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kenguruhu

Couldn't you also say, "Soha látók pincérek itt"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

The negative adverbs, like soha, semmi, senki, semelyik, and so on, need an additional negation to work, nem or sem.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KathyLudan

I thought when there was an object we would use "latom" rather than "latok"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

That only accounts for definite direct objects. So those that have a -t suffix (check) and are something definite (not check). These here are just random waiters. If they were "the waiters" or "our waiters" or "those waiters", it would require the definite conjugation (látom). In the Hungarian sentence, definite objects are pretty easy to spot by having the definite article a in front:

Itt soha nem látom a pincéreket. - I never see the waiters here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vvsey

Sorry,
"pincéket" = "cellars"
"pincéreket" = "waiters".
Otherwise excellent.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

I knew that it didn't look right somehow. Thank you, I'll correct it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JereArmen

Oh! Interesting. Contrast German "Keller" = "cellar(s)" and "Kellner" = "waiter(s)"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Margaret731267

What is the difference between soha nem and sosem? Is it a contraction?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vvsey

"Sosem" = "soha sem" = "soha nem".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RowanM.1

Can anyone please explain what's wrong with "Soha nem itt pincéreket látok"? I haven't included the pronoun, but I thought they were mostly optional in Hungarian. Or does "soha nem" need to go before "látok"? I find putting the verb at the end is usually the way to go, but come to think of it, negative words like "nem" have to immediately precede what they're negating, I think???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Rowan, that's right, nem negates what appears immediately after it. So you have "not here" in your sentence and you're putting focus on the waiters by putting them right in front of the verb. I can't really make sense of your sentence.

Usually when you want to say that something isn't happening, you place nem right in front of the verb:

  • Soha nem látok pincéreket itt. - I never see waiters here.

If you want to negate a different aspect of your sentence, you generally place that between the nem and the verb:

  • Soha nem pincéreket látok itt. - It's never waiters that I see here.
  • Soha nem itt látok pincéreket. - It's never here where I see waiters.

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RowanM.1

Many thanks for that helpful and clear explanation. Much appreciated. Please have a Lingot on me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JereArmen

There is something wrong with the response suggestions, which tell me to write "latok" and not "látok." You ought to fix that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VinnHoward1

Music artists who sing at concerts post coVideo...the #NationalHymns in every language...

<h1>HimNosNatSionAlles</h1>

https://youtu.be/FHNLdHe8uxY

Learn Hungarian in just 5 minutes a day. For free.