"זה לא טעים לי, זה מר."

Translation:This is not tasty, this is bitter.

August 7, 2016

57 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Talya137997

Why is the 'לי' here? I thought this would be 'it is not to my taste'. Why not just 'זה לא טעים'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlmogL

The לי here expresses that this is a personal opinion, it may taste good to you, but no to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alpich1

Ooh thanks.. I didn't get to see this answer here.. I do take this same answer


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

And it's not tasty /this doesn't taste good: זה לא טעים

, this isn't tasty to me : זה לא טעים לי


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Li: means = to me, it's not a pronoun like I, me it's a possession pronoun, it's like my,


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

I wonder. Is this really a pronoun in Hebrew grammar. The English equivalent "to me" would be a prepositional phrase. Any one up on hebrew grammar?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

To elaborate on what TeribleT said:

I'm pretty sure that it really does mean "to me", and that זה טעים לי literally means "it is tasty to me". In other words, "I like it". Without the לי it would mean "it's (objectively) tasty". So this sentence has two parts: "I don't like it" and "it's bitter". The first is about my relationship with the food and isn't an objective statement about the food. The second is an objective statement about the food.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Skoubi_Doo

To answer to TeribleT and shimkelevine:

Indeed, I would'nt call "li" a pronoun : it is the combination of the preposition -l (to) and the morpheme i- used to refer to the first person of the singular. And it goes the same for "my" ("sheli"), it is the combination of the prepostion used to express possesion, "shel" (of), and the morpheme i- (first person singular). I studied linguistics in college, but unluckily not Hebrew grammar in details, so I'm not a specialist... So, as far as I know, I would also consider "li" (lakh, lekha, lanu, etc.) a prepositional phrase.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Aaron.Crowe

Generally referred to as 'prepositional pronouns', they also feature in celtic languages.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

I studied neither linguistics nor Hebrew grammar in college. What you say sounds good to me, but maybe I am just projecting from what Iknow of English grammar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShiloGeva

In Hebrew לִי is מילת יחס מוטית which means "a conjuncted preposition


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Iris354890

You are right!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanRosauer

Why is לי ignored in the translation? The only option available is 'This is not tasty'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hannah649004

I wrote "This is not tasty to me, this is bitter" and my answer was accepted, so I think they've now changed it. However in English (British) I would never say "This is not tasty to me" so I didn't expect my answer to be correct, I just couldn't come up with an alternative.

My conclusion is that in this situation Hebrew is more polite than English and the "to me" should be excluded in the English translation. If I was choosing to express my opinion in English rather than make a statement I would say "That tastes bitter to me". In English you need a verb if you are saying the words "to me".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

In my (brooklyn NY) Englihs, I would more naturally say, "To me this is not tasty". (or also I don't find this tasty, but it sounds kind of elitish - more likely to say "i don't think this is tasty' or just 'this isn't tasty.' -- When I first got to France, my girlfriend would correct me when I made value judgments as statements of fact. She said that in France that would be considered presumptuous and that I should say "Je trouve..." or "A mon avis..." or something of the sort. I don't know of course whether this was a question of her personal preference or whether all native French speakers would react the same way. But the analogy with the Hebrew sentence here seems instructive.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Skoubi_Doo

As a native French speaker, I'd love to give you an answer, but I guess it depends on a lot of things: context, intonation, the person you are talking to... Still, I'd say that when you are not with friends and/or relatives, it is better to use something like "To me this is not tasty" rather than a blunt "This is not tasty." We like to smooth the rough edges! xD


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

Thanks, Skoubi. I think you hit on a more general difference between the French and American perspective, or at least how we express ourselves. BTW, it does not surprise me that the Japanese is closer to the French. I notice over and over, as I get to know Japan and its culture, startling analogies. In another field, for example, the aesthetic presentation of food. And the cultivation of a refined palate. And even the way both cultures analyze and discuss with extreme precision what they eat (often while they are eating it). On another plain, the codification of manners. The importance of cleanliness. The sense of order. I could go on.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shoshanah531034

I wrote the same and it marked it incorrect!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

I think you could use it in English if you changed the word order and said "To me this is not tasty" but that might give it a different nuance. What I might say in English to convey the same reaction would be "I don't find this tasty."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/enorby

"This is not tasty to me" is perfectly correct in English. I don't know why anyone is taking issue with it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

Because it isn't correct English. "This is not tasty" is a statement about the dish, not about yourself. Of course you might not consider it tasty and somebody else might love it, so to avoid arguments we usually say things like "in my opinion, this isn't tasty" (or "I don't like it", which is a statement about me, not the dish). Shimkelevine's formulation, with "to me" in front, is essentially using "to me" as a substitute for "in my opinion". However, "tasty to me" is a contradiction in terms, so you can't say that the dish has that property or doesn't.

To use an analogy, being tasty is like being hot. You can say that an object feels hot to you, because feeling involves a relationship between you and the object, or you can say that, in your opinion, it's hot. However, you can't say that it is hot to you. It's either hot or it isn't.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SarahBerry17

For those wondering about the "לי" in this sentence, the following was accepted: "This isn't tasty to me, it's bitter."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berel13

It should be the same in Hebrew and in English זה לא טעים לי is the same as "it's not tasty too me" or "i don't like the taste"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

This is an instance where a literal translation really doesn't work in English. Saying "This is not to my taste", while correct, is hopelessly formal. Saying "This is not tasty" is missing the point of including לי. The most natural phrasing in English is just "I don't like this. It is bitter." That doesn't contain the word "taste", but your not liking the taste is obvious from context. (But it isn't accepted.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ansa211

I've tried "I do not find this tasty" - also not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrunnoHC

(Antonia) I think it us wrong: 'Taste' is 'טעם', 'tasty' is 'טעים'. The 'לי' express like 'my opinion'...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarrettph

Using that and this in the same sentence like this makes it sound like you're talking about 2 different things. I wouldn't recommend accepting that translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Scripture.Page

"For me, this is not tasty; it is bitter." Simply saying "זה לא טעים", without the "לי", would make more sense if we weren't trying to make it a statement of personal preference.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cupshebrews

I translated it: "This is not my taste, it's bitter." It was counted as wrong.. is it wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/4kzaj

The word isn't טעמ (taste) here, it's טעים (tasty), so yes, that translation would be incorrect, as you're using a noun and not an adjective in your personal translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NatashaSha386361

In polite (US) English one might say "I don't care for it." Thus you avoid criticizing whoever cooked it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

I think the Hebrew is a bit more blunt than this diplomatic way of putting it. More like 'to me, this doesn't taste good.' or 'in my opinion this tastes bitter.'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gbdrbob

I entered "To me that is not tasty, it is bitter" but it was rejected.

Is it not a valid sentence in English and better than the "official" translation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaryJaneKe4

"me" should be used for the hebrew word "לי" correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hsn626796

I לי means "to me"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

to me. To us: lanu,etc. Lamed means "to". The לי, לה, לו, לך להם, להן, לכם... All "to" + pronoun. To me, to her, to him, etc. This is all in the tips and notes, if you don't have them because you're in the app you can find them on the website, or search on discussions. Or just let me know I'll repost the links


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dave-O.

"to me" wasn't an option, only "with me".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/drincade

I wrote: I don't think it is tasty, it is bitter. This encapsulates the to me part.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidCheat1

I think it's strange that "bitter" isn't a taste.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, the tongue can detect five tastes: sweet (מָתוֹק), sour (חָמוּץ), salty (מָלוּחַ), bitter (מַר), and umami (אוּמָמִי). But you can strangely find a taste untasty!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EmilyConkl10

What does the לי mean in this sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

The Hebrew sentence is making a subjective assessment. Literally, the speaker is saying "This isn't tasty TO ME. It is bitter." It's something you might say when tasting 80% dark chocolate, while acknowledging that your friend loves the stuff. (FWIW, I like 70% chocolate, but anything stronger is too bitter for me.)

The English sentence doesn't say "to me", so it claims to be an objective statement. The food isn't tasty, period. It's too bitter. If somebody else tastes it, they won't like it either.

Bottom line: Both the Hebrew and the English are plausible sentences, but they don't mean the same thing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Julietta744731

You might be better saying ‘ this isn’t to my taste, it’s bitter’


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LaLa627712

A natural English translation of this would be "this doesn't taste good to me, this is bitter". For someone learning this language, it is incredibly confusing to start throwing unnecessary words into a sentence. Duolingo should just omit "לי" or allow "to me".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DianeKohn

This does not taste good to me. This is bitter. (just asking)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

Well, yes and no. Yes, that is the basic meaning, but the problem is that Hebrew uses an adjective and your sentence has a verb. So, they are close, but not an exact translation. But next time you can report, and maybe they will accept it in the future.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

Am I the only one who heard NOT 'ze mar' but something closer to 'zim hara'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

I can hear "ze mar" very clearly. If you're having trouble hearing the audio, try using headphones.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GabeGewurt

this should be "tasty to me","טעים לי" not just "tasty" as required by the question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lfd

I do not think it is tasty, or it is not to my taste?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shimkelevine

These two options have different nuances. The first gives your personal opinion of the objective taste of the food, the second is more personal, avoiding any judgment (altho since we are used to people sugar-coating their comments, it at least implies a judgment.). in sum, the first is ultimately a comment on the food, the second on your tastes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ashtoooooon

It accepted it both with and without the "לי"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alpich1

Why is "לי" in the sentence while it's not even in the translation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, the לִי is a sort of dativus iudicanti, as tastes differ from person to person, it expresses that it is not tasty to your point of view.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Aaron.Crowe

Opted for the Ethical Dative found in Jacobean English. Eg 'Knock me at this gate.' ~ Shakespeare, Taming of the Shrew,1.2. Shows the person who takes an interest. But I prefer your explanation. Shows the person for whom it is true. I award me you a lingot.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/claudeGold1

I would rather translate : "I do not like it" to take into account the "לי" or " it is not my taste"

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