Weekly Incubator Update: Tracking Progress from July 31st to August 7th
We have two updates from SebastianMolin from the Romanian Team. They are close to done and will be in a position to lock their tree soon. They have also added a new alpha tester. Please read on...
Meanwhile the Esparento for Spanish team has slightly adjusted their beta launch date. Please see below.
For most of the other news, there's nothing further to report this week!
PHASE 1 Progress: Total 22 courses
Guarani for Spanish - 100% | l100% | 100% | 100% (+0)
Greek for English - 100% | 100% | 100% | 100% (+0) 20-Aug-2016
Esperanto for Spanish - 100% | 100% | 100% | 100% (+0)
English for Thai - 98% | 98% | 98% | 98% (+0)
Portuguese for French - 91% | 96% | 96% | 96% (+0) 7-Sep-2016
Romanian for English - 93% | 94% | 95% | 94% (-1)
German for Italian - 92% | 92% | 92% | 93% (+1)
Swahili for English - 70% | 70% | 70% | 70% (+0) 1-Dec-2016 ^
Spanish for Italian - 67% | 68% | 68% | 68% (+0)
Swedish for Russian - 65% | 66% | 67% | 68% (+1)
Italian for Portuguese - 56% | 56% | 57% | 58% (+1) 1-Apr-9999
Czech for English - 55% | 55% | 57% | 58% (+1) 7-Jul-2017 ^
French for Chinese - 47% | 47% | 47% | 48% (+0)
Russian for Turkish - 45% | 45% | 45% | 45% (+0) 31-Dec-2016
French for Turkish - 41% | 42% | 41% | 42% (+1)
Indonesian for English - 28% | 28% | 28% | 28% (+0)
Hindi for English - 28% | 28% | 28% | 28% (+0) 26-Jan-2017 ^
Klingon for English - 26% | 27% | 28% | 28% (+0) 31-Dec-2016
Korean for English - 17% | 18% | 19% | 20% (+1) 31-Dec-9998
English for Tamil - 15% | 15% | 15% | 15% (+0) 28-Feb-2017
Yiddish for English - 9% | 9% | 9% | 9% (+0) 7-Jul-2018
English for Bengali - 5% | 7% | 8% | 9% (+1) 20-Feb-2017
Course - 3 weeks ago | 2 weeks ago | a week ago | Now (Progress delta); Estimated Launch Date (provided by contributors) (Date delta)
'Estimated Launch Date' only when provided by the course contributors
Mean - 0.43% | 0.59% | 0.32% | 0.27% (-0.05)
Median - 0% | 0% | 0% | 0% (+0)
* This week's Leader Extraordinaire! (None this week) ^ The Hindi, Czech, & Swahili teams' progress is as per their own calculation
Here's what the contributing teams have said during the last week:
(For Phase-1 and Phase-2 courses by default, and for Phase-3 courses per request).
A slow week, with glad tidings
It has been a month almost since my last update. The course now has two more contributors alongside yours truly in this time! We are working on the basics of the language translation tree and will continue to work to meet the milestones ahead of us. We are still looking for committed, interested and overall passionate volunteers who will take the course to the next level. What we want is someone (or one-s) who is not only fluent in both the languages but is comfortable in starting with the very basics of the interchanges and work up to the subtle nuances that make up a language. So keep those applications/contribution requests coming. Send it again even if you sent it a year ago. Send to if you think you needed to add something you missed, whatever you do- don't stop sending your applications/ contribution requests.
আমার শেষ আপডেট ছিল প্রায় এক মাস আগে। এর মধ্যে কোর্সে এখন আমি ছাড়াও আরও দুই জন কনট্রিবিউটর যুক্ত হয়েছে! আমরা এই মুহূর্তে কাজ করছি ভাষার "ল্যাঙ্গুয়েজ ট্রি" এর প্রাথমিক অনুবাদের উপর, আমরা কাজ করতে থাকব আমাদের সামনের মাইলফলকগুলো একে একে পার করার জন্য। আমরা এখনও আগ্রহী ও উৎসাহী volunteer খুঁজছি যে (বা যারা) কিনা এই কোর্সটাকে পরের ধাপে নিয়ে যেতে পারবে। আমারা শুধুমাত্র দুই ভাষাতেই স্বাচ্ছন্দ্যবোধ করে এমন কাউকে চাচ্ছি না, আমরা তাকে (বা তাদেরকে) চাই যে কিনা প্রাথমিক বাক্য বিনিময় থেকে শুরু করে ভাষার সূক্ষ্মাতিসূক্ষ্ম তারতম্যগুলো নিয়ে কাজ করতে পারবে। অ্যাপ্লিকেশান/ কন্ট্রিবিউশন রিকোয়েস্টগুলো পাঠাতে থাকুন। এক বছর আগে পাঠালেও আবার পাঠাও। আবার পাঠান যদি মনে করেন যে আপনি কিছু দিতে ভুলে গিয়েছেন। যাই কর না কেন, অ্যাপ্লিকেশান/ কন্ট্রিবিউশন রিকোয়েস্ট পাঠানো বন্ধ কর না।
1155 words, 58%.
It has been a while...
Seems like finishing this course is taking a little longer than expected. We have been progressing, but at a much slower pace. I know.. I said release should have been in July, however it seems might that my estimate was a bit off.
We plan to finish and lock the course soon,
Here are our Current Statistics
1) 100 % completed word images
2) 2232/2334 completed words
3) 20 skills have notes
Hope to answer all your questions soon, and sorry for the long wait, it's almost over :-/
Mil perdones | Pardonegon
Volvemos a retrasar la fecha porque nos informan que la migración del sistema sigue en curso... Desde hace 3 semanas no podemos hacer nada más para sacar el curso salvo esperar igual que todos. Mientras, para animaros, buscad Dek bovinoj y escuchad esa canción infantil pegadiza que un padre ha realizado para que sus pequeños aprendan los números en esperanto hasta diez, suficientes para contar hasta 99 ;) (se cuenta como en chino o japonés: dek tri 13; dudek tri 23)
Y si os apetece informaros o animar a amigos, os recomendamos ver el vídeo "9 Reasons to Learn Esperanto" (=9 razones para aprender esperanto) que ahora tiene subtítulos gracias a jóvenes de la Federación Española de Esperanto. Ĝis!
A Few More Steps!
During the past week, we have been working hard to continue our process in the finalization of the course.
Now that all skills have the words added to them, all that remains is for us to add sentences, form exercises and notes, after which we can lock the course for verification and the addition of Text-to-Speech.
I would also like to announce our newest alpha tester, well known duolingo user Teenage_Polyglot has joined us and is helping us fix the missing translations and issues he finds with the course before we release it into beta.
As we get closer and closer to that “100% finished” line, I have put together a few screenshots from lesson content, notes, and a few skills as a sneak peak of what is to come. I hope you all enjoy it.
This image is resized to fit, original image here
Status quo, mostly! Progress on the Romanian front that will make some of us excited.
Previous Update 24-Jul to 31-Jul
I won't say much, but the course is very good, and I'm enjoying alpha testing it, to make sure it has a fast and efficient time in beta, and is easy for learners to use.
Oh you are SO wonderful Teenage_Polyglot. Thank you also for this report !
Thank you also for the team that have brought this new course to this stage !
It is EXCITING .
What is with Yiddish :/ A percent every 6 months is not enough! They don't want to accept more contributors, but they don't even contribute themselves! (I applied to contribute numerous times, they declined, my Yiddish is native, not the one from the Yiddish college, which they are using, which nobody even speaks!!!! It's like making a course for ancient English when nobody speaks it, but when a native applies to make a regular English course they ignore...) I speak Yiddish from birth, I speak the Hasidic Yiddish, not the college-fixed to learn Yiddish.... Guess thats not good enough :/ .. Sorry for ranting it is just too upsetting for me...
I agree, as a native Yiddish speaker, the college Yiddish is extremely unpopular, and never actually spoken in conversation. I speak the Yiddish that we actually speak since birth, the Yiddish they learn is only useful for small phrases, like "It was gevaldig" instead of "Si'iz gevain gevaldig".
Yes yiddish is regional, if you google yiddish you'll find that there are a few kinds, just accent wise or they use different loan words like imagine arabic, in Morocco they mix it with French in Israel with hebrew etc. So it's like that, some do with Russian others polish and others Dutch.
I can not give you information on that - and it is a great question. However I would be very surprised if this was not the case - considering the geographic disbursement of Yiddish speakers.
Yeah, I was thinking that they should teach colloquial Yiddish but the question would be what type of spoken Yiddish. Duolingo doesn't have a problem with choosing a dialect, like how they teach US English, Latin American Spanish, Bokmal Norwegian, Parisian French etc.
Yes - we are huge smudges of colors with so many things. Variegated and merging - from one to another, like gently rolling hills in a vast plain of variety, and where do you draw the boundaries ...
Please remember resources are limited, while realities variations and diversity - including of a human minds ability to communicate are substantial - I would I think be comfortable with the term limitless.
And so one comes back to diversity and tolerance.
And also by the guidelines that give us a valued structure and considered goal to head towards.
Life, I would say , thankfully , is diverse.
Not perfect in a linear form of one concept.
And so perfect in its diversity.
And always the words of a person that I admire greatly echo ...
"The greatest gift that you could choose to give to Duolingo - is that of kindness." : Usagiboy7
What is college Yiddish? Can you give examples of the kind of thing you're talking about?
College Yiddish is basically the Yiddish they teach at colleges, the accent, the grammar and the words are completely not used in the COMMON Yiddish community, Example we pronounce "איך גיי שלאפן" as "Ikh guy shloofn" they would say "eekh gey shlahfn" which sounds so bad... another example would be "איך רעד מיט מיין שוועסטיר" "Ikh RRed mit mahn shvestirr" They would say it as "eekh red met meyne shvester" Their R's arent rolled, ours are, they would say shvester, rather than shvestirr, their accents are just completely wrong, so is their grammar. They try to be perfect with the grammar like "Der, Das, Die" However the real Yiddish only uses "Die" Unless you want to go back to the 1940's and speak Yiddish then... :/ Sorry if my comment is all over the place lol.. basically what they teach you is "Latin" type of Yiddish rather than REAL spoken Yiddish, the Yiddish we speak now-a-days..
'The real Yiddish only uses "die"'... um, no it doesn't. I can guarantee you native Yiddish speakers of three generations, including me, use all three genders. I have no idea how you even reached this conclusion, the vast majority of Yiddish songs and poems alone should quickly show you how the language works. It sounds like you are describing a regional accent, but again, I have no idea how you are describing this as 'not real Yiddish' - completely unfounded. I would pronounce those sentences 'Ikh gay shlofn' and 'Ikh red mit mayn shvester', my accent is a cross between Polish yiddish and the (controversially) standardised Litvak variety... Duolingo teaching either would be fine by me, but to say that either of these varieties is not real Yiddish is completely absurd.
My bad at explaining it badly, however everyone including schools here have changed the der/das/die to die to only die, so my conclusion was based off of the fact of what I see every day.... Yiddish songs and poems use older Yiddish and older Yiddish words you won't find anywhere in our vocabularies. Only people who speak Yiddish since before it modernized more will know them. However me being a 17 year old will make me use the modern Yiddish and modern Yiddish grammar/vocabulary. I'm sorry if I offended you in any way.
It seems obvious to me that any course in Yiddish would want to teach people how to understand stories, songs and poems written in that language. So teaching the genders is completely necessary. Not to mention, not understanding the genders would make any conversation with native speakers difficult. Here is a modern yiddish news website, you'll notice it uses all three genders: http://yiddish.forward.com/ In fact, I'd be interested to see any modern Yiddish publication that does not use all three.
I might add that I also learned Yiddish in school and learned the three genders there, so I'm guessing you either went to a pretty untypical school, you've mis-remembered your education there, or there is some weird modernisation happening in New York that hasn't happened elsewhere, and as such is untypical of Yiddish in general. You haven't offended me, I just think you're wrong! Yiddish has always had and continues to have gender, if it is losing gender in some parts of the world that is interesting but not particularly relevant to a Duolingo course.
@liszue (sorry, can't seem to reply): The only standardization of Yiddish I am aware of is the elevation of Litvish (Lithuanian) Yiddish to literary Yiddish, which happened during the course of the early 20th century. There's a good article by Dovid Katz about that here: http://www.dovidkatz.net/dovid/PDFLinguistics/1998_ReligiousPrestige.pdf So this would be the obvious version to teach. However, this is controversial as a standard, for reasons outlined in the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiddish_dialects#Standardization_controversy The short story: Standard Yiddish is not spoken by most native speakers. Now these are facts I was already aware of. But the case outlined by israelpolasak, of native speakers dropping the genders, is complete news to me, it's the first I've heard of it. After a bit of googling it seems that this is the norm in Hasidic (orthodox Jewish) communities. This is not common in either the literary standard or spoken varieties of Polish or Lithuanian Yiddish. My feelings on the matter are that the literary 'standard' would be fine for Duolingo's purposes, since differences in accent are not that hard to bridge, they would be similar to the difference between North American english and Scottish english. And obviously it's easier to drop genders than to add them on later.
Coolazice, is it like the way the Esperanto for Spanish speakers volunteers are checking in with the Academy of Esperanto?
OTOH, Esperanto is a conlang in the first place, while Yiddish has been developed (and is still being developed!) by millions of people over centuries.
Is it more like when I took Spanish classes at school and they taught us standard Spanish as spoken in Spain, so that we'd be understood in more Spanish-speaking countries and have a solid basis to later learn the regional dialects and the slang?
OTOH, Spanish has more than one nation-state where it's the official language, while Yiddish has no nation-states where it's the official language.
Is it more like the way Duolingo's French courses teach "college French" instead of verlan?
OTOH, French too has more than one nation-state where it's the official language.
Yo, my father and grandfather have never used "der das die". They're both from ULTRA religious Jewish families, who ONLY spoke Yiddish at home AND at school. Maybe you learnt the old way? I went to a Chassidish Yiddish school until I was 13, we weren't allowed to speak English, yet we still never used der das die, even in our writing we always wrote die only. You have learnt the very unpopular Yiddish. The Yiddish you learnt is like "Yeah my grandparents spoke Yiddish so I remember a few words" kind, that nobody actually communicates in besides for a short instance. The Yiddish we use is used at home and in schools all day every day. (Go to kiryas joel you'll see what i'm saying). I'm not trying to come off as rude, but 85%+ of Yiddish speakers are from Monroe Kiryas Joel, Boro Park, Williamsburg and New Square, and we all don't use der/das/die and we speak Yiddish everywhere
The Yiddish spoken in NYC is mainly... non-standard as I would stay. Duo sticks with standard, the rules set by the commission.
Eh, whenever I speak to someone all around the world they use the Yiddish I use (I've spoken to people in Israel and NY, then just from random areas like a Russian once, some Polish people) soooo
By standard, I mean not the norm, but one that is official. No one says 자장면 (the standard name for a popular dish), they all say 짜장면
Oh sorry, thanks for the clarification ahaha I thought you meant like which most speak so obv I based my answer off that
Some months ago, maybe even over a year, I got shot down as antisemitic for suggesting that the Yiddish course ought to be replaced (at a time when there were supposedly server limitations) because nothing was happening to it - it's painfully static. So in the end, if it's going to be a form that's not even used in speech, it's going to end up being pointless. They should have gone the route the Spanish-Guarani course is taking, using Jopará, which is colloquial, not an unspoken variant used only in documents.
Being replaced completely would suck, but making it the COMMON version/changing the contributors would surely help... Eh, if they added a few more contributors (2-3) it would speed it up soooo much, especially contributors who are as hardworking as I am, as my brother is, as my friends are... :/
Honestly you'd be a good contributor, Yiddish is moving like a snail and needs a boost, it's been long enough.
It would truly be nice, but Duolingo staff would have to "sack" the current course-makers.
Would the difference between college Yiddish and "real" Yiddish be similar to MSA vs any other Arabic, Norwegian Bokmål vs spoken Norwegian, book Finnish vs spoken Finnish or something completely different? I realise Yiddish lacks the standard version my examples have but all of my examples (will) teach the non-spoken version.
I was thinking about Arabic, as well, in this context. Interesting question! I don't know the answer, but I'm looking forward to hearing what people think.
It's more different. Spoken Yiddish is much rougher and we add words that aren't "legit" like deye (this one) or deys (this) which in "Standard Yiddish" would be dem, I have never heard someone use dem in the life of mine and I speak Yiddish daily with everyone I interact. The accents are more different than English from America and Britian, it's more like Welsh and Australian different. The College Yiddish is more like the Litvish Yiddish (which rarely anyone knows anymore, besides people learning Yiddish in college, which they don't ever speak with). Majority of Yiddish speakers speak chassidish Yiddish. I've honestly never spoken to any "college Yiddish" speakers in my life, I just know from videos how they sound, and it's terrible
I'd also like to know if you have any background on the languages I mentioned. The whole point of having two versions is that the other one uses words that aren't legit. Don't quote me on this but I believe all Arabic dialects aren't even mutually intelligible which I think Welsh and Australian are. Having vastly different dialects means it's reasonable to teach the version everyone understands but no one speaks.
I thought the whole point of the differences between MSA vs any other Arabic, Norwegian Bokmål vs spoken Norwegian, book Finnish vs spoken Finnish, etc. are that in these languages people speak in one dialect and write in another dialect (instead of using the same dialect for both the way English speakers, Spanish speakers, etc. do)...
Duolingo is much better with reading and writing than with listening and speaking. Also, Duolingo for Schools works better when the version Duolingo teaches is the same version schools teaching the language are likely to use.
Maybe Yiddish for English speakers should focus on whichever version of Yiddish people whose native language is Yiddish write the most, never mind which versions they speak the most?
For example, even if you have never heard someone use "dem" in your life, have you ever read someone using "dem"? Maybe you haven't, maybe you have, I honestly don't know.
They're going to teach the one that is taught in college, it has more rules and more words. We also don't use more than half the phrases they do. It's kind of making our Yiddish less "strong" since our Yiddish grammar is kind of odd sometimes, well a lot of times. Our words are tougher to pronounce, even if it's the same, the way they pronounce it is just extremely different. When I listen to someone speak from that Yiddish I can understand mostly what they say, but they also add words that we stopped using back before the 1900's, so sometimes they confuse me. MSA Arabic is understood almost in any Arabic country, my Moroccan friends understand it, so do my Dubai friends, and my Egyptian friends, they say it's differently pronounced and they use some different words. I, being an American know what Welsh are saying when they write it, but when they speak it's extremely difficult and have to focus, same with the Yiddish, can this mean this? or did he say this... etc etc
Pity the one-percent-per-week streak was broken for Klingon. Good to see the progress in other courses, though. Thank you, Jitengore, for keeping us informed!
Exited for Greek. I hope they'll be done on time. 13 days till promised release.
Also patiently waiting for Czech.... good too see the steady progress.
English for Telugu in the incubator. Marathi in the wings. More urgency to get the Hindi course out timely :)
Yay for Team Romanian! It will be a few more weeks until beta, but I am so excited already! I have been waiting for this course for well over a year.
Also still waiting for Guarani...
and will also try German for Italian...
So there will be a lot for me to learn this coming fall! (I live in the northern hemisphere.) So looking forward to these trees!
Can't wait for Romanian, Guarani and Portuguese from French. Keep going, people!
It depends on the team. (I think most of them calculate with what they know - i.e. when they expect to lock the tree, and then possibly change it if they get a date from Duo staff afterwards, but on the other hand I know that the Czech team's calculation includes some additional time for finalization.)
It depends on the team.
There are dates that are calculated by a formula, however teams are encouraged to manage the release date themselves.
So as widle says, it depends on the management of the team, and the management style of the team.
All teams are different.
Ideally the release date is meant to include alpha testing and all preparation required to release to Beta 2 stage, including for the period of when the course is locked in preparation that is required to be done 'in house' by Duolingo to allow the course to move to the next stage. However every language has certain differences and difficulties. And these problems may not realized until a certain stage is entered.
So please treat these release dates as a very very rough estimate.
Please do not choose to harass ... well ... anyone .... about why a release date is modified or is passed and reset.
Remember these people are doing this also as volunteers, and have contributed countless hours to produce these courses. I assure you all due care and passion is involved to produce these courses as well.
Re Alpha Testers - you might like to check out this
If you are interested in becoming an Alpha Tester you could watch out for when a course calls for Alpha Testers, by following for example these weekly reports by jitengore .
I'll answer about the Alpha Tester position.
Recently, I was one of the people who applied for the position for Team Swahili, and I also read reports from alpha testers of other courses (Hebrew, Greek and Romanian). Most teams ask testers to apply via incubator, but as far as I understand there is more than one way to become an alpha tester. The team chooses the ones they find most dedicated, and they also need curtain requirements (regular user on their account, limited or no prior knowledge of the language they are asked to test, ect). This varies from team to team, so just because you meet the criteria for one team doesn't mean you qualify for another team. These requirements ensure that the alpha tester can test regularly and is learning mostly (or sometimes entirely) with the course-given material, so they can determine the effectiveness and clarity of the course (especially in the earlier units). The alpha tester also reports mistakes in spelling, examples, definitions and natural language in both the course sentences and Tips & Notes. Of course, not all mistakes are caught by the Alpha testers, which is why courses have a Beta phase before the final graduation.
I hope I have answered your question well.
Very interesting. Did you get accepted as alpha tester for the Swahili course? If so—and you're probably not allowed to say much, but I thought I'd ask anyway—is it good so far? Are you liking it? I have such a hard time containing my excitement about that one.
Yes, I was accepted, and so far the course is good. It's not polished, but considering the state it's in, the content is clearly very well planned out and is comprehensible. I'm enjoying Alpha testing it.
French for Chinese says 47% | 48% (+0) Should that be +1? Or is that a rounding issue?
That is correct, as real life happens. We are enormously thankful for all the great things that jitengore does for this language learning global community. And does so consistently. And goes beyond this weekly update. We are in his debt.
I don't disagree with any of what you said, but I'm not sure if I understand the first sentence. That range is not correct, no matter how you look at it, right?
Yeah, "34-Jul to 31-Jul" looks like "the 34th of July to the 31st of July."
I really appreciate what jitengore's done for us, and I don't want to pressure him to also make July have 34 days too. ;)