"ליל הסדר הוא הלילה הראשון של חג הפסח."

Translation:The Passover Seder is the first night of the Passover holiday.

August 7, 2016

32 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tngraham

Shouldn't that be "Seder night" or something like that?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dovbear57

Yes it absolutely should be Seder night, that's what it's always been called in my family, probably since about 1899 when they arrived in UK.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Not in the US, we call it the Passover Seder. At it's two nights in the diaspora. (The second night is referred to as "2nd Seder"). I've never heard either called Seder night.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JewishPolyglot

Did you know that the holiday of Passover is seven days long in Israel and eight days long everywhere else?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

The key point isn't just that the holiday is longer in the Diaspora (for the reasons explained elsewhere in this thread), but that in the Diaspora we hold seders on both the first and second nights of Passover, making the sentence factually incorrect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CAA15

Why the discrepancy?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JewishPolyglot

Because the first and last days of the holiday are celebrated similarly to Shabbat (no work, etc.) and while in Israel there is only one such day at the beginning followed by another one at the end, outside of Israel there are two such days at the beginning and two such days at the end. The holiday of Sukkot follows the same pattern


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mazzorano

In fact every holiday in the diaspora is "doubled" and is referred to as יום טוב שני של גלויות. It is a fence made by our sages as the new moon was declared in Israel and it took time to spread the word to other regions. Hence they created a one day "buffer zone" (ספיקא דיומא). The only exception to this will be the fast days and Shavuot which is only counted as 50 days from Pesach, without a fixed date.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JewishPolyglot

Actually, even Shavuot is two days long in the Diaspora. However, everything else you said was correct - although the משנה ברורה has a different reason as to why nowadays, with our advanced communication systems, we still have the two days in the Diaspora :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mazzorano

I never said Shavuot is not two days. My reference to Shavuot was that it does not have a fixed date, hence the גדר is not מחמת ספיקא דיומא, as far as I know.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JewishPolyglot

Ah, OK. Got it :) Here's a lingot!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VidAdler

Yom Tov Sheni shel Galuyot - This two-day observance was instituted in Talmudic times because of the difficulty in communicating the decisions of the Sanhedrin in Yerushalayim as to the beginnings of the various Hebrew Months to the Jewish communities in the Exile, thereby creating confusion as to when certain holidays fell. Since the doubt was only over two days, the two-day observance covered both possibilities.

https://www.ou.org/judaism-101/glossary/yom-tov-sheni-shel-galuyot/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

The comments are correct, but the real reason it's done this way is they are doing what used to be done to make sure they celebrated the holiday on the correct day (from communities not close to the Temple, so they couldn't make sure they had the right day). So they added an extra day to make sure.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

(Sorry can't edit in the app...)

That's why you see comments mentioning the "buffer zone".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NatashaTroyka

Is there a more literal translation of ליל הסדר? Does it just mean "night of the seder"? I'm guessing ליל is לילה when it's the first word in construct state, is that correct?

So if I'm correct, is the Passover seder referred to in Israel as "night of the Seder," or is this really saying something more like "the night of the Seder is the first night of the Pesach holiday"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/radagastthebrown

The Passover Seder was originally called סדר פסח, and it is still used, but also commonly referred to as הסדר ("the Seder"). The night in which the Passover Seder occurs is called ליל הסדר - literally "the night of the Seder", as you wrote. סדר פסח and ליל הסדר are not identical: סדר פסח or הסדר is the ceremony, ליל הסדר is the night in which the ceremony is performed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NatashaTroyka

Thank you, that's very clear and it helps a lot!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/s0sBG

It always does and always will


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ItaiH6
  • 1364

In Hebrew ליל הסדר is the official name of the event but it is mostly called just הסדר. It is somehow like the Israeli currency which is officially called New Israeli Shekel but everybody calls it Shekel or more rarely nowadays Shach (the Hebrew initials of Shekel Chadash).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chocolatandante

What's wrong with calling it Pesach instead of Passover? Those of us who keep it call it Pesach in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

That depends on location. I don't doubt your experience, but everywhere that I have lived, from Maryland to Massachusetts to California to New York to Texas, we've called it Passover.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnCatDubh

וְהַמִּימוּנָה הִיא הַיּוֹם הָאַחֲרוֹן.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Telstar2

No, it's after Passover is over.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gsazbon

I get it wrong: The night of the seder it is the first night of the passover holiday. And like Radagast... has explained not only that my answer is correct, but the 'Passover seder' is wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Allan892482

Should be "seder night". Also, Rosh Hashanah is two days even in Israel.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BG8aa

rosh hashana has a different reason for being 2 days, nothing to do with the diaspora.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BG8aa

this is not a literal translation. ליל הסדר means seder night. This is the correct translation and even of not displayed, should be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VidAdler

This is a terrible translation. 'Leil HaSeder" is "The Seder Night/Evening"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/s0sBG

Yeah that's a correct sentence for that


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/s0sBG

Wording what you just said


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Allan892482

And if you want to get technical and picky, Pesach is the 14th of Nissan. The (first outside Israel) Seder is at night, technically the beginning of the 15th of Nissan and the beginning of Chag HaMatzot. Check it out. Read the biblical text carefully.

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