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  5. "היא לא רואָה את העצם הזה."

"היא לא רואָה את העצם הזה."

Translation:She does not see this object.

August 8, 2016

27 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/atznj

Isn't this also "She does not see this bone?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/radagastthebrown

In Modern Hebrew there's a difference between עצם=bone and עצם=object: a bone is a feminine noun and an object is masculine. Since it's העצם הזה and not העצם הזאת, you know it's masculine and therefore it's "this object" and not "this bone".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arijun

Except that people will also use זה for feminine objects as well, and עצם is much more commonly used to refer to a bone than object (according to my friend), making more reasonable to assume it's a bone rather than an object.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/radagastthebrown

Not in this case. "זה עצם" could be "this is a bone" (colloquially), but "העצם הזה" can only mean "this object".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arijun

Oh wow thanks for clearing that up, that means I will have to be a lot more careful with my "זה"s and "זאת"s


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/joelnaqqar

יש הבדל בין עצם וחפץ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dovbear57

That's what I was wondering. I would think חפץ is more common, but if there are some expert Hebraists out there, can one of them please comment on this question?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zivke1

Following this question


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, I would say sometimes there is a difference: חָפֵץ are often artifically made things, objects of your desire, you can buy in a store, gadets and the clutter of things I have on my desk, whereas objects of the natural world, let's say an asteroid in space, are עֶ֫צֶם.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dovbear57

Enlightenment from Ingeborg as always. Thank you


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oldshoe5

Could you also say: She does not see this thing?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mgrdAT

duolingo says that"thing" is wrong. dec 2019. reported.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tngraham

What about "She does not see this thing?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

If you do not mean "thing" in a too general, abstract way, but mean something physically palpable, why not. In the other case I would use דָּבָר.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tom273734

Are עצם and עץ (tree) linguistically related?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, short answer: No, not at all. Longer answer: עֵץ as a semitic primary noun has only two root consonants, עֶ֫צֶם, more originally "bone", three, from a root meaning approximately "to be strong, mighty".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tom273734

Many thanks for all your explanations, I find them very helpful. But still - how are we sure that these words are absolutely unrelated? Both tree and bone are something strong or solid which can hold other things... Couldn't they stem from the same origin?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, for such question you have to compare the other semitic languages too, and Ugaritic, Phoenician and Arabic, Ethiopian and Akkadian too have variations of עץ, all meaning "tree" or "wood" with two radicals, but the root-family עצם is attested in verbal and nominal forms in Phoenician, Ugaritic and Arabic. There is no usual development or any indication, that these words have interacted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tom273734

Great, thanks indeed!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GabrielLip708914

Why do the הי and הו sometimes have an aleph at the end and sometimes not?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, א was the letter used for a weak guttural, the glottal stop, like in English to separate vowels (uh-oh!) or in Cockney English boʾʾle. It always became silent if closing a syllable, but was retained in spelling here, when prebiblical hūʾa (whose reflex הואה is still visible in Qumran Hebrew next to הוא and הו) lost its final vowel. Sometimes אָלֶף now helps to distinguish homophones (לֹא not, but לוֹ him) or different verb conjugations (מָצָא find, but בָּנָה build). It is dropped in some compound words, so you write מַ֫שֶּׁהוּ something, although it is formed from מַה־שֶּׁ־הוּא.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dovbear57

Can you give an example of where you have seen them without the alef? The words he and she are always הוא and היא so far as I know, and I've never seen a word הו or הי in Hebrew. But maybe other Duolinguists have more knowledge of this??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, I suppose the scrolls of Qumran are not your main reading material. For example 4QDª 11,9: ואמר ברוך את אונ הו הכול ובידיך הכול ועושה הכול אשר יסדתה ...saying Blessed are you, vigour, who is everything, in your hands is everything, you do everything, you have founded... Note the use of אוֹן as a replacement for the divine name. Still more often the form אפהו even he is used in Qumran.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dovbear57

Thank you Ingeborg -- informative as ever. My question was meant as a response to Gabriel's post, but this is an interesting point


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AriellaSny

Why "this" and not "that"??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, you could say הַהוּא that instead of הַזֶּה this, but it is used less than in English.

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