1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Hebrew
  4. >
  5. "אני ובן דודי אוכלים ארוחת בו…

"אני ובן דודי אוכלים ארוחת בוקר."

Translation:My cousin and I are eating breakfast.

August 8, 2016

26 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Snommelp

Don't know if it's worth reporting, but "me and my cousin are eating" isn't proper English. "Me" is an object, "I" is a subject. In this sentence, it's a subject, so it should be "my cousin and I."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fdsimms

But it's also worth pointing out that constructions like "me and my cousin" are really common colloquially (at least in Am. English?) I would definitely say "me and my cousin" in normal conversation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamReisman

I agree with fdsimms. I'm a linguist, and I use "me" as a subject pronoun all the time. Using "me" as a subject pronoun is a very normal, common colloquialism in English. The structure appears to be borrowed from French, where you refer to yourself as "moi" and not "je" when using one-word responses.

Note: Often people who are strongly opposed to this structure will incorrectly use "I" as an object pronoun, which is called "overcorrection" (and not a colloquialism), for example, "on you and I."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dan878472

And would you use it if the subject were not plural? i.e. " Me eats breakfast". I am not a linguist, but I would never use such a construction...commonly used does not make it correct. My family in a rural area still says, "he don't..." They all do it--strength in numbers but still not right. Take it from I, me is right here, or is that "take it from me, me is right here, or......oh heck, just stick with Chinese they use one pronoun for everything, even to the point of only having one word for both "he" and "she"---but the characters are slightly different. 他 vs 她, both pronounced tā. BTW duo has a good Chinese course.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shim

Is it standard in Hebrew to put אני first in a list like this? In English you would put the first person pronoun last such as in: "My uncle and I" or "My uncle and me" (depending on the context). So is it the opposite rule in Hebrew?

Because it does sound a bit awkward to me to say בן דודי ואני


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/radagastthebrown

As far as I know there is no rule - you can use either אני ובן דודי or בן דודי ואני, both are fine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NoamKriten

Yes, it's common and doesn't consider very rude


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wyzra

Is there somewhere where they explain the rules for pronouncing the vav for "and"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Snommelp

I don't know if it's in any of the lesson notes, but the biggest rule is "bump" -- you pronounce the vav as an oo sound when it's followed by a b, v, m, or p sound. So, here, where it's followed by a ב, it's oo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamReisman

I never hear Israelis using "bump" in casual speech, except in fixed expressions like משא ומתן. They seem to always pronounce "and" as "veh"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NaftaliFri1

Right, it's hardly practiced colloquially


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/k0TN1

It should also be oo when it comes before shva nikuda


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Helen613612

"Having breakfast" is a very commonly used English expression. It just isn't the most literal translation of this sentence. The problem with translating this sentence absolutely literally is that there's a convention in English, that when speaking about oneself and someone else, it's bad manners to mention self first (as if you thought you were more important). It's the sort of thing we get corrected for as children:-) So the best compromise is "My cousin and I are eating breakfast"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Ani uven dodi okhlim arukhat boqer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hsn626796
  1. Is the ben>ven thing called a dagesh, as far as I remember ?

  2. Is the "letter" or the "process" of changing the pronunciation called so ?

  3. When does the "b" become a "v" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamReisman
  1. The dot is called a dagesh, and the rules are complicated. in this sentence, since the bet is no longer the first letter of the word, it loses its dagesh. 2. I don't understand this question. 3. bet loses its dagesh kal (simple dagesh) whenever it's no longer at the beginning of a word or syllable.

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hsn626796

I was asking if dagesh is the "letter" or the "process" of conversion from b to v , like the "process" of lenition in Celtic languages.

and, Thank You


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamReisman

Neither. The dagesh is the dot inside the letter. The word literally means "emphasis." There are 2 types in Hebrew:

  1. dagesh kal (דגש קל‎, "weak emphasis") may be placed inside the consonants ב‎ bet, ג‎ gimel, ד‎ dalet, כ‎ kaf, פ‎ pe and ת‎ tav. They each had two sounds: the original "hard" (plosive) sound, and a "soft" (fricative) sound.

2.Dagesh ḥazak (דגש חזק‎, "strong emphasis") may be placed in almost any letter, this indicates a gemination (doubling) of that consonant in the pronunciation of pre-modern Hebrew. This gemination is not adhered to in modern Hebrew.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/radagastthebrown

In modern Hebrew דגש חזק is pronounced just like דגש קל when it appears in ב, פ or כ. (v-b, p-f, k-kh).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Celioluzverde

"My cousin and I" is not "אני ובן דודי". It would be "בן דודי ואני".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Helen613612

Very true. It's just that to translate the exact word order from Hebrew would be considered bad English, as I explained above. The "best" way of translating this sentence is a compromise of word order which still conveys the meaning of the original statement, without appearing (to an English speaker) bad-mannered.

See AdamReisman's remark below :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steven768876

Which should be correct in this sentence - ארוחת בוקר or ארוחת הבוקר?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danny912421

ארוחת בוקר

Learn Hebrew in just 5 minutes a day. For free.