"החובשים במגן דוד אדום יודעים איך מבצעים החייאה."

Translation:The medics from Magen David Adom know how to perform CPR.

August 9, 2016

54 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FaizalZahid

Wow! That translation for CPR! Where does it come from? Etymology.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jg9000

It shares the root of the word חיים (life), and is the noun form of the verb להחיות - to bring to life / revive / resuscitate.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FaizalZahid

Does this word have any (significant) meaning before CPR is invented?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jg9000

It can refer to the act of reviving somebody or something. For example: החייאת השפה העברית = The reviving of the Hebrew language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeiraBatya1

מחייה מתים ברחמים רבים


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

So, was החייאה derived from מחייה?

b112 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeiraBatya1

It certainly looks like it to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xerostomus

CPR = Cardiopulmonary resuscitation or Canadian Pacific Railway. :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JuliaIsach

Why don't they use the infinitive form of "perform" here? (I belive it would be לבצעות)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, the infinitive of בִּצֵּעַ is לְבַצֵּעַ. The construction יָדַע אֵיךְ + infinitive should be fine here too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeiraBatya1

The literal meaning in Hebrew as the sentence is written is "how CPR is performed" or "how we perform..." or "how one performs..." They all convey the same thought.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

In American English, the most natural phrasing would be "the medics WITH Magen David Adom", not "from" or "in". "From" is OK, but suggests that M.D.A. sent them, rather than that they're a part of M.D.A. "In" is right out. ("With" isn't accepted as of 10/10/18)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Corinnebelle

"In" is not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kutjul

Literally, yes. But the term Magen David usually refers to the star of David...it's the Israeli version of the red cross.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

When responding to another comment, please use its REPLY button to facilitate our knowing what you're talking about.

b008 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Ha-khovshim be-magen david adom yod’im eikh mevats’im hakhya’a.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pepe660492

CPR BUT NOT A CPR


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/soongsongs

In this example, it doesn't say, " את ההחייאה". Yet, in another example, the sentence is:"The medic performs CPR," and the answer had to be: ".החובש מבצע את ההחייאה." In that previous question, it wouldn't accept:"החובש מבצע החייאה"

Which is correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dovbear57

Good question. I think it's because in this case, they know how to do CPR in general, whereas in the sentence you quoted he did the CPR on a definite person at a particular time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

Also, the sentence in that other example (now, anyway) is: "The medic performs the CPR". So it needn't be for a definite instance; it could be a description of who does what in an ambulance team. E.g.: The driver assists with carrying equipment and moving the patient, but only the medic performs the CPR.

b008 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

That's an interesting attempt to salvage things! It has hints of traditional biblical interpretation, where small variations in wording are given great weight.

Of course, that approach is based on the idea that every detail in the Torah is intentional and reflects divine intent. I don't have nearly the same faith in the writers of DL Hebrew, whose English translations are often wildly inaccurate. In this case it's much more likely that DL is just being inconsistent.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

Salvage, indeed. Thanks for the smile that your comment gave me. I did wonder if I was stretching it a bit too far. Maybe the course was doing the same in that other exercise, just to help us remember that החייאה is indefinite and we need ההחייאה to make it definite.

b008 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Beno986966

They should be accepting paramedic as a translation for חובש


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeiraBatya1

I'm not 100% sure but I think a paramedic has a more extensive medical knowledge than a medic does. Medics primarily work in emergency situations, and paramedics work in medical offices sometimes in place of an MD.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Beno986966

You may be correct in USA, Canada, Australia etc I don't know, but in UK English, the correct translation for a חובש would be a paramedic. In UK paramedics go out in ambulances and are at events, they are not the ones in offices.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

It's similar in US English. The people who go out in ambulances are usually well-trained paramedics. Medics with less training are more likely to show up on a battlefield to tend to the wounded. But there isn't a clear boundary between the terms. Both medics and paramedics have some training in emergency medicine, but neither one is a doctor. Meanwhile, the people MeiraBatya referred to, who work in offices in place of a doctor, are called "nurse practitioners" or "licensed practical nurses".

So which of these categories corresponds to a חובש?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeiraBatya1

You're right about nurse practitioners. Thanks for the correction.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xerostomus

הַחוֹבְשִׁים בְּמָגֵן דָּוִד אָדוֹם יוֹדְעִים אֵיךְ מְבַצְּעִים הַחְיָיאָה


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Janis559500

Thanks again for all your help with nekudot.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nebuxadnezzar

Magen means "star", isn't it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xerostomus

כּוֹכֶבֶת או כּוֹכָב = star


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, כּוֹכֶ֫בֶת is only a female celebrity.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CAA15

So Magen David Adom translates to Red David shield or David's red shield?(Technically they are almost the same.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Well, I suppose the shield is red, not David ;-). But grammatically the adjective can refer only to מָגֵן־, because the personal name דָּוִד is determinative by definition and would require הָאָדֹם.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_judith_531

@Ingeborg , in smikhut-patterns both the nismakh and the somekh are either understood as determined or both indeterminate , which is defined by the somekh , David defines the expression that is ; thus , it makes gramatically speaking , no difference if אדום refers to מגן or to David , it follows a fully determined expression that actually would require the he-hayediah


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Yes of course, you are right, the ה"א הידיעה before an adjective is necessary in a construct chain with a personal name. So מָגֵן־דָּוִד הָאָדֹם would be both the red shield of David and the shield of red David. Does this mean that the name of this organisation is simply an irregularity, you say הַצְּלָב הָאָדֹם the red cross, aren't you?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShiloGeva

Actually what is red here is the "Magen David" which means "Star of David" - the star that represents jews/Judaism and in the centre of the Israeli flag. Just here it is red.. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

MDAIS logos

b101 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rich739183

A good example of something that even I can enjoy without being able to discern most of the words.

b101 rich739183


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeiraBatya1

Red Shield of David


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/clairelanc3

What is CPR? Hw can we guess, if we don't know ,that we mustn't use the article? Please you are doing this course not only for American speakers!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSadun

CPR = Cardio-Pulmonary Resuscitation. It's what you do for somebody whose heart has stopped and/or who has stopped breathing, and is essential knowledge for a medic. Is that called something else in other English-speaking countries?

By the way, DL Hebrew is definitely NOT tailored to Americans. They often insist on phrases that might (or might not) make sense in Britain, but would never be used in North America.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/clairelanc3

Thank you for the explanation. The use of the initials makes it pretty difficult for foreigners ,at least the first time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fltiennne

I beg to differ! (It's probably a case of "mixed bag")


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pepe660492

To perform A CPR was marked wrong?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeiraBatya1

You can perform a CPR procedure, and you can perform CPR, but in American English anyway we don't say perform a CPR.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vitaliy-Moscow

I wonder, I met the word " חובש" in the phrase " הילדים חובשים את הכובעים ". האם זנ אותו השורש?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IngeborgHa14

Yes, indeed. A חוָבֵשׁ medic is originally a dresser (of wounds), bandager, as the root חבשׁ means to bind a bandage. As ancient hats were usually turbans made by winding a length of cloth round the head (like the מִצְנֶפֶת priestly mitre‎, the head covering worn by the High Priest of Israel when he served in the Tabernacle and the Temple in Jerusalem), the same verb is used for this. This double usage is already Biblical. Compare פְאֵרְךָ חֲבוֹשׁ עָלֶיךָ Ezec 24.17 bind your headdress on you with ‏אֶת־זְרוֹעַ‏ פַּרְעֹה מֶלֶךְ־מִצְרַיִם שָׁבָרְתִּי … לָשׂוּם חִתּוּל ‏לְחָבְשָׁהּ לְחָזְקָהּ ‎‏ לִתְפֹּשׂ בֶּחָרֶב Ezec 30.21 I have broken the arm of Pharaoh king of Egypt, … to put a bandage to bind it, that it be strong to hold the sword.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vitaliy-Moscow

Very interesting. Thank you.

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