"בשבת אני הולך לכמה בתי כנסת."

Translation:On Shabbat I go to a few synagogues.

August 11, 2016

43 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/houthakker72

Should probably also accept 'walk' in place of 'go'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamReisman

It should also accept "shuls" as well as synagogues.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ben197011

'Shul' is borrowed from German for 'school' while 'synagogue' is borrowed from Greek for 'communing place'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ben197011

*Greek for 'assembely'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emily823504

Isn't shul Yiddish, not Hebrew?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamReisman

We're not talking about Hebrew, we're talking about translations from Hebrew. In English, it's very common to call it a shul.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emily823504

Ok, so "isn't shul Yiddish, not English?" If I'm translating into English, shouldn't the translation be in English (even understanding that we borrow words from other languages and that "synagogue" is what, Greek?)? In certain English-speaking populations, I understand it's common to use Yiddish, but my guess is that "synagogue" would be more widely understood by non-Jews and that "shul" would not be used by non-Ashkenazi/non-Yiddish speaking populations.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamReisman

Shul is Jewish-English (Borrowed from Yiddish and used by many Jews in the United States). Shul is my normal word for that building.

Here's an example of normal Jewish-English that I asked my Rabbi last month: "Rabbi, is it a mitzvah to daven maariv on Erev Pesach?"

(Note that this is actually how Jewish languages start to form and diverge from standard languages.)

And you're right. Synagogue is more widely known by non-Jews. Most non-Jews also say Sabbath instead of Shabbat.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamReisman

More examples: I say kippah (the non-borrowed english term is skull cap, which I would never say).

I say menorah (the non-borrowed term is candelabra, which sounds totally wrong to me).

I never say: prayer shawl, phylacteries, or pentacost (the non-Jewish way of referring to Shavu'ot).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hannah649004

I didn't know what shul meant, I've also not heard of it before. I don't think it's used in British English unless it's just used amongst the Jewish community.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VforBBforV

What Adam said is exactly the same in the UK. We say shul, (actually in the UK we generally say shabbes rather than shabbos), tallit, (prayer shawl) kippah, (small crocheted "skull cap") yarmulke (larger stitched fabric "skull cap") siddur (prayer book). We also use phrases like "it's a schlepp to the shul" (it's a long walk to the synagogue). It's just how we talk! Like Adam says, the words that non Jews have for these things just don't sound right. Especially skull cap. That just sounds horrible!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CTfalcoUSA

Is it common to go to more than one synagogue on Shabbat? One after the other?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamReisman

No. In fact, I would say it's quite unusual. Unless there is a second event you want to attend.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lorbaborb

if you're in a place with lots of synogogues close together, lots of people will got to a few but usually just to get the best food


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

Is the sharing and eating of food a normal part of going to a shul?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BG8aa

Many shuls have what they call a kiddush after davening (prayers). According to halakha, one may not eat anything on Shabbat morning until after s/he has heard kiddush, a special blessing over wine/grape juice. In many shuls someone makes this blessing after davening, and following the custom that one must have a meal in the place s/he heard the kiddush, food is served as well. This kiddush has come to be used in many places as a celebration of sorts, where a family with a simcha (such as bar mitzvah, or the birth of a baby) sponsors the event that week. The custom varies between shuls, but most do have a kiddush. Despite the fact that this has become the accepted custom, there is no obligation to make such an event and it is not part of the Shabbat prayer services. Most families will return home for the seuda and the father (or head of the household) will make the kiddush again.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EliandSara

I think the pronunciation is lekama not lechama


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/franzisca09

I think that when כמה gets a prefix the first letter changes to its 'soft version', so you have the letter 'chaf', instead of 'kaf'. (btw I think that happens with all/a lot of words that start with a letter that has a soft version: like 'p' and 'f', and 'b' and 'v'). It's related to the rule that the beginning of a word never starts with a soft version, e.g you don't find an intrinsic hebrew word starting with 'f'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kyle.su

I could not guess what word they meant from audio until I heard it, and I lived in Israel and spoke hebrew for a couple years, including taking college courses in hebrew (like psychology and discrete mathematics).

It's possible I just never noticed and perpetually made a mistake, in theory, but that seems unlikely. I think this is a 'hyper correction', something for grammar nerd prescriptionists, but that people don't speak this way. 'כמה' is just always pronounced 'כמה', even if prefixed, I think. It sounds and feels very wrong otherwise to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamReisman

I think you're right. I wouldn't call it hyper correction though. It's formal Hebrew according to classical rules. I also never heard anyone change the first consonant when adding prefixes except with the word כל .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PhilippePlaton

Is it totally unacceptable to say "On Saturdays" rather than "On Shabbat" ? otherwise I guess the former should be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BG8aa

My guess is because this sentence was talking about attending synagogue, it is obviously religious and it is understood from context that the speaker would be referring to shabbat. A big part of language is the hidden context, and maybe the course creators were trying to add that. That being said, Saturday should technically be correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

DL accepts Saturday.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Ok, from Modern Hebrew Grammar by Lewis Glinnert:

"Construct phrases are two Hebrew words side by side (usually two nouns and usually a set phrase), much like English soccer game, apple tree. The first noun in the Hebrew is called ‘the construct noun’ and often displays a special construct ending."

The construct: set phrases To make two nouns into a set phrase of the type ‘soccer game’, Hebrew places them side by side, but in the opposite order to English: the noun that does the qualifying comes last, just as an adjective follows its noun. The whole thing is called a construct phrase or smichut, and the first noun is called the construct noun. ...... A construct phrase is often more than just a matter of putting two nouns together. The first noun frequently requires a special ‘construct ending’ and / or an internal change of vowel.

(Unfortunately the Hebrew pastes badly in here as you can see from my attempt above, you can however see the full page with the Hebrew examples at Google books: (just search the phrase in the book, construct phrase) https://books.google.com/books?id=U92GsgPDRUMC&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:%22Lewis+Glinert%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj52MTnivLgAhUQhOAKHWjzCvgQ6AEIMjAC#v=onepage&q&f=false


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mirko588322

Is it usual to attend more than one service on Shabbat?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BG8aa

There are 4 prayers on שבת: Maariv (Arvit) is Friday night, Shacharit and Mussaf are Shabbat morning, and Mincha is Shabbat afternoon. While some people attend all services at the same בית כנסת, there are some that don't. This can be due to location, service times, a שמחה, or various other reasons.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mirko588322

אני צריך ללמוד השהו בכל יום. תודה רבה


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ronni13530

Tous fous ! Merci à vous tous de cette aide inestimable apportée aux pauvres bougres comme moi qui TENTENT VAINEMENT D'APPRENDRE L'HEBREU


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/magicdoge

I wonder...my mind wants "כמה" to mean "many", per ״על אחת כמה וכמה. Is "a few" an innovation of modern hebrew, or is ״כמה וכמה״ idiomatic?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamReisman

The word כמה never means many. It doesn't indicate any amount, so translating it as "many" won't work no matter what. It refers to an undisclosed amount, and always has. For example: כמות means amount or quantity.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Erlenmeyer71

Duolingo didn't accept "the Sabbath" as a translation for שבת -- is that just an oversight or is Shabbat preferred?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamReisman

Sounds like a total oversight to me. "Shabbat" is much more common among Jews than "Sabbath," but even so, "Sabbath" should be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Larry824711

ll "שבת" can also be translated as "Saturday", and I assume DL would accept that. To many non Jews, the Sabbath would actually be Sunday, not Saturday. The implication in this sentence is we are talking about the Jewish Sabbath, i.e Shabbat or Saturday.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rBhr5
  • 1316

Can כמה also mean 'several'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/imnotbisan

Yeah, i think. " A number of, a few, and a several"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ben651355

Shouldnt it be בתי כנסיות instead of בתי כנסת


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TeribleT

Someone mentioned this in a prior discussion. It's the construct state. It's also in the tips and notes. (I actually don't think the tips and notes is very explanatory), but necessary. Here's the section:

The most used (irregular) nismach is the word ת יָ ב") ּhouse"). However, when בית is a part of a smikhut, its nikkud is changed and the nismach becomes ית ב .ּAgain, let's illustrate this through an example: (bayitּ (בָ י ת - house A (sefer (סֶ פֶר - book A (sefer beytּ (ב ית סֶ פֶ ר - school A (bayitּ (בָ י ת - house A Sick (people) - חולים) cholim) A hospital - חולים ית ב) ּbeyt cholim)


I'll find another example and post that if I can..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steven768876

Again, why is it בתי כנסת and not בתי כנסיות?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BG8aa

In the construct state, the נסמך is pluralized, not the סומך.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steven768876

I used several for כמה and it was accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeahLapidus

Since when is it pronounced /chammah/ instead of /kamah/?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theresa754142

On this forum Franzisca gave a correct explanation, but Kyle said that he had never heard of this change when he lived in Israel. The reason he didn’t hear it is that the change is correct in formal language, but not used in ordinary spoken language.

The change is that before prefixes,

b changes to v (a word which begins with b will, when prefixed, change the b to v...beit sefer, school, changes to la-veit sefer...to the school.

k (כ) changes to a kh sound

and p changes to f.

So piano is psanter, while “and piano” is u-fsanter in formal language. Native speakers say that sounds ridiculous though. I suppose it sounds as ridiculous as a native English speaker saying One has to be careful with whom one talks. That’s formally correct but I never hear people speak that way.

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