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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DragonPolyglot

Scottish languages (Scots and Scottish Gaelic)

I wanted to share some facts about these two languages for many reasons. Feel free to contribute your knowledge or chat about either of these languages.

Many people confuse the two or sometimes just assume that there is one "Scottish", the tongue of Scotland. There is, in fact, more than one language native to Scotland, each with different names. Scotland's official language is English, but British Sign Language, Scots and Scottish Gaelic are all recognized minority languages.

Here are the differences (big ones!)

Scots is a lot like a differently spoken/written form of English. An English speaker can easily understand a lecture or text in Scots, as it is a sister Germanic language of English, but there are many differences such as spelling and pronunciation, making it strange and even laughable to those who had no idea it existed. There are about a million and a half speakers of Scots, mainly but not exclusively in Scotland.

Scottish Gaelic, on the other hand, is a Goildelic Cletic language more related to modern Irish. In fact, I think if one can speak Irish with fluency, Scottish Gaelic is likely to be as easy or easier for them, since both are descended from Middle and Old Irish. Knowledge in Scottish Gaelic is rarer than knowledge in Scots, as efforts to revive Scottish Gaelic has been laughed at and looked down upon by the general population of Scotland (at least in past years), but less than 90,000 people have any knowledge in Scottish Gaelic.

Here are examples to compare the two further:

VIDEO

TEXT

Wikipedia article about English

Do you prefer one to the other? Why do you like or dislike either of these languages? In your opinion, is it important to have awareness of either of these languages? Why or why not? To speakers of English: How much Scots can you understand? Are there any Irish learners here that can understand some of the Scottish Gaelic without looking up words?

I hope you enjoyed the post.

August 12, 2016

38 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gerardd88

This is so interesting, thank you very much for sharing this! I must admit I've only knew that such thing as Scots existed but nothing more about it.

It's really sad that such languages are almost extinct. I regret especially what happened with the Celtic languages which seem to be a truly fascinating language family. They should now stand as a fully respectable family next to the Romance, Germanic, Baltic and Slavic families and not be a handful of small or even extinct languages spoken by less than a million people, which are not even used too much in their own countries. Hopefully some efforts for their revival will achieve something significant in future.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mr_Eyl

Scots is not like a badly written / spoken form of English any more than Dutch is like a badly written / spoken form of German.

They're separate languages, and it's neither fair nor accurate to make one out to simply be an inferior version of the other.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DragonPolyglot

What if it is a case like Dutch and Afrikaans? Afrikaans started as "bad Dutch" in South Africa and then was recognized as a separate language in the early 20th century. So Afrikaans is "bad Dutch" but also its own perfect language. Scots and English could be poor versions of each other due to linguistic evolution.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/matthewfbyrnes

I don't think it's really appropriate to call a type of language "bad." Languages develop, and geographically/culturally isolated groups of speakers tend to change how they speak. This doesn't make the new version "bad."

I also think "bad [language]" is an especially loaded term, given that (because of colonialism) many of the most popular world languages started in Europe, which results in people calling the "bad [language]" the version of the language that isn't in Europe and isn't spoken by white people. An example of this is the racism inherent in Spanish nationals insisting that their form of Spanish is better or "more pure" than the Spanish spoken in Latino America, despite the fact that Latin-American Spanish speakers greatly outnumber European Spanish speakers. If people can communicate using a language, then it is good.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DragonPolyglot

I get what you're saying. I just meant that if you listen to one without knowing the other exists, it'll sound like a different less "proper" version of the language. That is for lack of better wording without being overly lengthy. I do not mean to offend, it's just that the field of linguistics is very difficult to explain using common, well-known vocabulary. I'm also trying to state facts others have written/said; before Afrikaans was indeed it's unique language, the Dutch reported it as a dialect of poor Dutch, which is how it evolved into Afrikaans. The devolving and evolving in certain areas of the language may had elites shaking their heads before but now it is recognized as a different tounge. So I'm also conveying my point through a many historical lenses; Afrikaans is not a bad language but at the time it was considered a very different version of Dutch reported as such.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mr_Eyl

It doesn't need to be lengthy. Just replace 'proper' with 'standard' and you're all set.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marvin783603

There is Scots the Language and there is A Scottish dialect of English which is kind of a hybrid of Scots and English. I am from Glasgow I can speak perfect English however when i'm talking to my kin I revert to a Scots dialect of English. Here are some examples. A beautiful little Girl (ENGLISH) A beautiful wee lassie (Dialect of English) and a bonnie wee lass (Scots) note that bonnie wee lass is not the same as beautiful little girl and can't be compared to English in anyway Night (English) Night pronounced nigh't (Dialect) Nicht (Scots) notice that the word nicht is closer to the German word nacht than the English word Night.

<pre> “Some hae meat and canna eat, </pre>

And some wad eat that want it, But we hae meat and we can eat, And sae the Lord be thankit.” ― Robert Burns


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nate605330

There is a debate on whether Scots is a dialect of English or a separate language. Personally I agree with you though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mr_Eyl

I don't understand the debate, to be honest.

English descends from the Wessex dialect of Old English with a strong Norse influence on its vocabulary. Scots derives from the Northumbrian dialect of Old English with a strong Gaelic influence.

People may as well argue that Danish and Swedish are the same language due to sharing a common ancestor from a thousand years ago.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Frechdachsbinich

The relation between Scots and English is nearer to Low German and German.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Multi0Lingual4

I'm sorry, but that Scots article was hysterical. How did you react when you first came across Scots? Geez...

The Scottish Gaelic one scares me, but it does seem easier than Irish. Having learned 8 words on Memrise, many of them are very similar to Irish ones. I'd be interested to hear what a native speaker has to say. Have a lingot!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeleeNess23

When I first saw the Scots article a few months ago, I thought it was a parody of Scottish accents. Turns out it's actually like that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Beta-Tron

i couldn't help but think of Groundskeeper Willie while reading that


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DragonPolyglot

Haha, thanks for the lingot! I actually heard about Scots on the forum when others were debating the closest relative of English (which many give Frisian that credit). I read an article on Wikipedia and was amazed at its similarity. I laughed because of my amazement and I was also reading it out loud, which I may have been doing wrong but I understood it enough to know what I was saying. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lezlie2k2

I think you mean Frisian not Faroese. The Frisian languages Engish and Scots make up the Anglo-Frisian branch of the Western Germanic languages. Faroese is a conservative member of the North Germanic languages. It is closely related to Icelandic and Norn.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ladyofthecorn

No offense to anyone living in Scotland (my great grandparents come from there and from Wales), but I seriously thought this was a joke for a second. Where can I learn it???

It does look alot like a Scottish version of English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DragonPolyglot

Memrise has some Scots courses. You can check that out for a start. Other than that, I don't know where you can officially learn it. Omniglot is also a good place to look, as there are language profiles on the site with resources. (Can't link it right now because I'm on my phone)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ladyofthecorn

Hahaha why the downvotes people??? :-/ Seriously I don't understand why some comments get the down votes and others don't... Is there some rule for giving them I'm not aware of?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Multi0Lingual4

Some people are offended by the idea that Scots is "lesser" or "a joke" compared to English. I have upvoted that comment. Clearly it doesn't make a difference. I don't like it when a select handful of people control the votes, but that's how life works.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ladyofthecorn

What's hilarious is that I'm learning Irish, want to learn the languages of my other ancestors too - many of whom where NOT english, so I'm not saying English is better or anything like that by a long stretch of the imagination. In fact none of my close ancestors were English at all and I don't think any language is a joke - but I did think that wiki page was a joke because I'd never heard of Scots and it literally read to me like the way they talk on Bournestown (I think that was itsname). I'm just a dumb blonde Aussie who wouldn't know if my head was screwed on backwards - never mean to offend anyone. :)

I guess I think it's negative energy wasted when I'd rather just laugh. :-/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Smilesbetter

I'd love to see a Scots Duolingo course and would gladly help create one but don't have the time to be the main person behind one. If anyone else was doing it I'd gladly help though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamieSmith797348

It’s misleading to call Scots a dialect of English. The two languages we today call Scots and English both have the same ancestor, namely Old English; but Old English is a long way from today’s Standard English. Modern Scots and modern English developed in parallel over centuries. Figure 1 at http://www.dsl.ac.uk/about-scots/history-of-scots illustrates the evolution and divergence of the languages. Scots comes from a dialect of Old English called Northumbrian, while Standard English comes from a dialect called Mercian. Scots has also been influenced by other languages including Norse, French, and Gaelic (source: http://www.scotsdictionaries.org.uk/Scots/History/CulturalContacts.html).

Other languages have developed in similar ways. Perhaps Frechdachsbinich doesn't count Norwegian, Slovak, or Scottish Gaelic as languages, either. There are of course dialects within Scots (see http://www.scotslanguage.com/Scots_Dialects_uid117/The_Main_Dialects_of_Scots) but the bottom line is that Scots is certainly not a dialect of what anyone today thinks of as English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/neio75

Irish and scottish gaelic are not mutually intelligible.Besides,I would not consider Scots as a language but as a dialect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/swingbeatnik7

I appreciate the information and the links, I always love to learn new things. I do have to say, Scots is a dialect and as a dialect, is not a badly spoken English. To me, it's the Scottish take on English.

I'm guessing that when Scotland gains independence they may try a Scottish Gaelic revival to reclaim heritage. It worked for Wales and they aren't even independent. It'd be cool to see a revival.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamieSmith797348

Scots is actually a language derived from a dialect of Old English called Old Northumbrian. English comes from another dialect called Mercian. They diverged over the centuries, but there’s a fair degree of mutual intelligibility in the modern versions. Figure 1 at http://www.dsl.ac.uk/about-scots/history-of-scots shows the development and divergence. I’d love to see a revival of both of Scots and Gaelic!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/swingbeatnik7

Thank you for the information!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marvin783603

not a chance they are currently opening Gaelic schools around Glasgow changing the names of the western isles and putting up signs in both English and Gaelic I come from Scotland not Alba, its almost a dead language and if you are ever forced to listen to it as i occasionally am you'd say it was a goofy language that makes anyone who speaks it sound daft. Please Gaelic speakers don't be offend that is just my ignorant interpretation of the Language


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Clay717

Thank you for the information.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/STPlates

Is there a way to combining English and Scottish into one language, called British? Scottish Gaelic should be renamed to Scottish. If not, Can duolingo release Scottish Gaelic onto Duolingo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Onyx.Rose

Duo is working on Scottish Gaelic now. It plans to launch in Beta July 2020. You might be able to check out their progress in the Contribute Language section of this website...or whatever it’s called. I forgot the name, but it’s there with the other languages they’re working on. Update: It’s called “The Incubator.” But it’s still reachable. Meanwhile, look up the other comments on this subject and see what others are saying about it. The list is on the sidebar of this discussion. It’s on your right hand side above. ^


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/STPlates

I’m a Brit, I would like to know how to find this page (Scottish Gaelic)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Onyx.Rose

Usually I would say 1. Go to your language flag button, the one that you use to select the language you normally want to practice, and press that. From there, 2. Go to add a new course, scroll all the way down past all the languages to the very bottom of the page. Push the the button that says Contribute To A Course. 3. Now you’re at the Incubator. Scottish Gaelic is being worked on at Incubator Phase One at the top of the page. Scottish Gaelic is the fifth one over. Push the arrow button to find it. But I’ll say this instead...maybe this shortcut might be the easier way to get to the Incubator: https://incubator.duolingo.com/ I hope this helps.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Petroc2

Scottish Gaelic has joined Welsh and Irish on Duolingo It has started on St Andrews day ie 30 november 2019. Earlier than planned and with a large and keen team of contributors its already passed 85,000 learners in one week.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tetrahedrons

Scots is my preference. I like that it is a Germanic language like my first language because there aren’t many, and that it is somewhat mutually intelligible with English. I can understand 70-80% of what I read in written Scots, and maybe 40-50% of spoken Scots.

It is important to have awareness of both although it is more important to have awareness of Scots since everyone has heard of Gaelic while very few have heard of Scots.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlecGuthri1

I really want to learn how to speak Scots!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlecGuthri1

If anyone knows someone who could help contribute to a Scots course here, whether you know any of Ulster-Scots, Insular Scots, or Shetlandic dialect, I would really love to learn some of it. It would be very fun especially knowing that it's what my ancestors spoke a few hundred years ago. If anyone could help make this little dream a reality, please let me know, and I would be so happy to learn some :)

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