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  5. "Do you still eat this?"

"Do you still eat this?"

Translation:אתה עדיין אוכל את זה?

August 13, 2016

23 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoseOlivar817253

Is it acceptable to change the word order? As to stress the emphasis on a word. Or the עדיין must follow the subject?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KenCavines

May I start this sentence with "אם"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Law106672

Good to know. I was marked wrong for the exact same sentence that I started with האם


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tyler_Ziemer

Is there any reason why אתה עוד אוכל את זה isn't accepted, or should I report it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yanivHacmo

It is found in the spoken Hebrew but as a bit slangish


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChayaDoppelt

In other words, it's correct, but I can understand why it wouldn't be accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pumbush

I think it is correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nathaniel136261

I think the more idiomatic (and correct) English translation is "Are you still eating that? [because I want to eat it]"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/esniqui

Why can't עדיין come first?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

It can. But see the article by Tania Notarius "Apsectual Markers" in Encyclopedia of Hebrew Language and Linguistics (1.218-20), which discusses how adverbs can help communicate aspect in Hebrew. [Follow-up: the adverb is close to the verb and has aspectual valency here in relation to the verb, so it may be closer to the verb in such instances. If you find out more, please share.]


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

I think עדיין can come first, and will still mean duration. But it's quite a special word order - it very strongly stresses עדיין. You'd use it to express surprise, and I think even some negative sentiment (I'm disgusted with you for still eating this). For this nuance, I think English would do something special, too - maybe put "still" last.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/esniqui

Thank you. The reference is interesting. (Here is the link: https://www.academia.edu/35955591/Aspectual_markers_-ENCYCLOPEDIA_OF_HEBREW_LANGUAGE_AND_LINGUISTICS_Volume_1_A_F). But it does not directly relate to my question. In any case Duolingo does not accept the order I asked about.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

Sometimes DL (as a free site) hasn't thought through every possibility. In this case, maybe they just didn't put the syntax you used as one of the possibilities. You could click on "My response should be accepted" and maybe a moderator will get around to allowing it. But I think when this adverb is used aspectually with the verb, it goes close to the verb, as in אתה עדיין לא מבין, "You still do not understand." In other words, for grammarians this adverb can help communicate a durative state or action in the present. As with English "still," you can probably move it for a slightly different nuance, as in "Still, I can't tell," עדיין, אני לא יכול לדעת. That construction is different from the durative state "I still can't tell." In looking around, I've noticed that the adverb likes to be after the pronoun (when there is a pronoun) and close to the verb when communicating some sort of durativity. [Update: Thanks YardenNB for your response below.]


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JetpackBrian

I noticed that "עדיין" came first in the sentence "We still don't have menus." (I think it was "עדיין אין לנו תפריטים."). Is that because אין and יש are special?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB
  1. Note: In עדיין אין לנו תפריטים, and in most other sentences of the form I can think of, as well as positive ones, the עדיין can be first or in later position in the sentence, and it would mean pretty much the same.
  2. It's not special to אין and יש. It's natural to say עדיין הימים חמים (or later in the sentence), or עדיין לא הפסיקו את הרעש (same).

I'n not sure what makes the sentence above different. I suspect that maybe the it's about an action, while the sentences in this example are about a state. But no strong theory here...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joshua52221

I thought עוד was still, not עדיין. What's the difference?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AniOhevYayin

My understanding is that these adverbs are largely, though not entirely, synonyms; עוד is classical Hebrew (found in TaNaK) while עדיין came into Hebrew in the Rabbinic period (with one yod). עוד is in the Bavli (so Jewish Babylonian Aramaic; it's also Syriac), meaning "in addition," "moreover," which I mention because the Aramaic of the Bavli has an influence on Hebrew. עוד can mean "more," as in עוד פופקורן, "more popcorn." Also in the Bavli עדיין, עדאן, can mean "still." I don't see how a typical MH sentence such as היה עוד אור, "it was still light," cannot be recast as היה עדיין אור. And yet the phrase for the Shoah is לעולם לא עוד, "Never again!" whereas עדיין לא has more of a sense of "still not," as in עדיין לא בטוח, "it's still not safe." עוד in some contexts can have the sense of "yet": עוד לא שאלתי אותך, "I haven't asked you yet," which is the same as "I still haven't asked you." It can also mean "else," as in מה עוד את רוצה? "What else do you want?" which is also "What more do you want?" My hunch as a learner is that there are sometimes a variety of ways in the source language (Hebrew) to use adverbs idiomatically and that English also has a variety, so we'll get a feel for idiomatic use of adverbs as we progress. That is, it's not as simple as a one-on-one correspondence between a Hebrew adverb and English adverbs, which is probably why a moderator didn't respond. But certainly a native Hebrew speaker can help us more. I hope this helps for now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

A native Hebrew speaker confirms (-:


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeahIlana

Thank you for your guidance. For me, the issue is that the intended meaning could be unclear in the English: Do you still eat this? To my native English ear, it sounds like "Do you still eat this (sugar -- even though the doctor told you to stop)? Or is the intended meaning: Are you still eating? (I've been away from the kitchen for 20 minutes and you're still sitting at the table)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YardenNB

The Hebrew sentence can mean both, and here's actually a third interpretation, close to your second one but not quite the same: "Are you still eating this? If you're done, I'd love to have what's left."

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