Translation:The airplane is flying over these cities.
It's the Hungarian thing to do.
If you have az "that" or ez "this" (or their plural forms), and the noun takes a postposition or case ending, then the az/ez takes that postposition or case ending, too - redundant but grammatically required.
I was wondering the same thing--is that correct Hungarian? And if so, why are both necessary?
It's correct Hungarian, and both are required because that's how Hungarian does it.
(Why does English say "five apples", with a required plural ending on "apples" even though that's redundant given that "five" already says that there is more than one? Because that's just how English does it. Hungarian, on the other hand, doesn't: öt alma.)
Thanks! that makes sense and helps with my incessant desire to plural after a number and get it wrong every time
Please provide a Hungarian grammar referece with detailed explanation. Thanks!
I kind of get it, but the comparison is not really great. Adding some small pieces to words here and there that redundantly show something is just that. A little bit of redundancy to keep things consistent. Sort of like vowel harmony. But this blows up the whole thing. Really removes all the compression Hungarian achieved in a lot of sentences and probably, like in any language, tests the limits of peoples attention spans pretty fast. Now add some ami, amelyek clauses in between and maybe even the average native speaker gets already lost. Might not be a daily thing, but just imagining someone explaining directions on a map. Over over, under under, next to next to, between between. And then you are, where I parked the car ... Now the way to the hospital... takes a deep breath... Lol
I am not a linguist but making ezy/azy and be done with ez/az instead of all that redundant package would be much nicer. Just to indicate that some suffix or postposition will define the whole thing, only after the noun. Then the comparison of the redundancies with the apples would be more equal.
One small suffix and not a dozen(s?) of different postpositions repeated.
At least I'd trade more plural -ek/ok on nouns if we could get rid of all of those ezekben, akként stb. variants with all different postpositions.
To me, "over these cities" implies movement starting on one side of the cities, with its midpoint directly above them, and ending at a point past the cities, while fölött does not have this movement meaning and only indicates that the flying takes place over/above the cities at all times.
Maybe "over" could be used in the "location, not direction" meaning as well, as long as you don't confuse yourself that fölött indicates this "from one side to the other" meaning (as in "he stepped over the dog").
Yeah. That’s not the issue. The issue is that it’s a crapshoot whether the present simple or progressive would be accepted.
I think it's poor that there is no explanation in the notes about double folott...we can't just guess at the grammar rules.
Yes there is...:
"Demonstratives and postpositions
Hungarian has one more complication in store for you. When you combine a demonstrative and a noun like ez a ház ‘this house’ with a postposition like mellett ‘next to‘, the resulting form is like with the case suffixes above:
emellett a ház mellett ‘next to this house’
afölött a kert fölött ‘above that garden’"
Sorry to correct you. But we write them separately in this case.
E mellett a ház mellett ‘next to this house’ A fölött a kert fölött ‘above that garden’
Emellett, amellett, efölött, afölött etc. are adverbs.
I'm too tired to go for a walk. Besides, it's raining. Túl fáradt vagyok, hogy sétálni menjek, emellett még esik is.
Yes sorry I thought I had replied to my own comment but not sure where it's gone now! I saw that there was an explanation, although perhaps it's a design flaw (in my opinion) that these are presented as a kind of optional extra that you have to remember to read, rather than something that's integral to your learning.
Dunno Anonymityp, I tend to face these like exercises to a lesson. Like in a book. =D
You're right, just as an interaction designer I can't help picking on this details :P
Just out of interest, do the native Hungarian speakers out there use the double fölött, or is it something considered "the proper grammar to use", but nobody actually does? I was wondering, as I have not noticed Hungarians doing this. Thank you.
If they say "the" (one az) then no - if they say "that" (two az's) then yes. And why would you want to learn bad grammar anyway?
No, there are the right number of fölötts in that sentence.
If you have az(ok) a(z) ... or ez(ek) a(z) ..., then both the ez(ek)/az(ok) and the noun take case endings or postpositions.