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  5. "A repülőgép ezek fölött a vá…

"A repülőgép ezek fölött a városok fölött repül."

Translation:The airplane is flying over these cities.

August 14, 2016

33 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bilegdembe

Why are there strangely two fölött? I think the first one is redundant


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

It's the Hungarian thing to do.

If you have az "that" or ez "this" (or their plural forms), and the noun takes a postposition or case ending, then the az/ez takes that postposition or case ending, too - redundant but grammatically required.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanaDzsana

I was wondering the same thing--is that correct Hungarian? And if so, why are both necessary?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

It's correct Hungarian, and both are required because that's how Hungarian does it.

(Why does English say "five apples", with a required plural ending on "apples" even though that's redundant given that "five" already says that there is more than one? Because that's just how English does it. Hungarian, on the other hand, doesn't: öt alma.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarciaTata

Thanks! that makes sense and helps with my incessant desire to plural after a number and get it wrong every time


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TabletSala

Please provide a Hungarian grammar referece with detailed explanation. Thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bethanne30

I am wondering the same thing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnWeber786406

It kind of reinforces (and ties) the articles with their nouns.
A folyó mellett sétálok - I walk beside the river.
E Ez mellett a folyó mellett sétálok. - I walk beside this river.
Ezek mellett a folyók mellett sétálok. - I walk beside these rivers.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chirelchirel

So if this was in singular, would it be "e fölött" instead of ezek fölött"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Yes, "e fölött a város fölött." :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chirelchirel

So I half understood the concept :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sherm0

what is wrong with the airplane flies over these cities?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

To me, "over these cities" implies movement starting on one side of the cities, with its midpoint directly above them, and ending at a point past the cities, while fölött does not have this movement meaning and only indicates that the flying takes place over/above the cities at all times.

Maybe "over" could be used in the "location, not direction" meaning as well, as long as you don't confuse yourself that fölött indicates this "from one side to the other" meaning (as in "he stepped over the dog").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sherm0

Ok, so how do I say it if I do mean from one side to the other?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GGABI2

A repülőgép átrepül a város felett.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

I haven't got to that part yet :) It may be fölé but I'm not sure.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnCatDubh

Yeah. That’s not the issue. The issue is that it’s a crapshoot whether the present simple or progressive would be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anonymityp

I think it's poor that there is no explanation in the notes about double folott...we can't just guess at the grammar rules.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heroldnak

Yes there is...:

"Demonstratives and postpositions

Hungarian has one more complication in store for you. When you combine a demonstrative and a noun like ez a ház ‘this house’ with a postposition like mellett ‘next to‘, the resulting form is like with the case suffixes above:

emellett a ház mellett ‘next to this house’

afölött a kert fölött ‘above that garden’"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GGABI2

Sorry to correct you. But we write them separately in this case.

E mellett a ház mellett ‘next to this house’ A fölött a kert fölött ‘above that garden’

Emellett, amellett, efölött, afölött etc. are adverbs.

I'm too tired to go for a walk. Besides, it's raining. Túl fáradt vagyok, hogy sétálni menjek, emellett még esik is.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heroldnak

Yes! You are right. I just copy-pasta-ied here. It is wrong there.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anonymityp

Yes sorry I thought I had replied to my own comment but not sure where it's gone now! I saw that there was an explanation, although perhaps it's a design flaw (in my opinion) that these are presented as a kind of optional extra that you have to remember to read, rather than something that's integral to your learning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heroldnak

Dunno Anonymityp, I tend to face these like exercises to a lesson. Like in a book. =D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anonymityp

You're right, just as an interaction designer I can't help picking on this details :P


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/woozlification

Just out of interest, do the native Hungarian speakers out there use the double fölött, or is it something considered "the proper grammar to use", but nobody actually does? I was wondering, as I have not noticed Hungarians doing this. Thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Judit294350

If they say "the" (one az) then no - if they say "that" (two az's) then yes. And why would you want to learn bad grammar anyway?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SandrellaS1

Well both my grandfather who is Hungarian and my friend who is also Hungarian say they have never used it. So, go figure! Everything until this lesson made sence to me but now I really struggle..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joachim734726

Please explain the difference between above these cities, and over these cities!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jzsuzsi
Mod
  • 802

above/over these cities - ezek fölött a városok fölött

both are accepted here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ann-katrin147469

I do not want to do this lesson because I dont understand anything if it. If Duo is a good teacher I ask for explanations! Thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Judit294350

DL is a free resource. There are good teachers and courses out there (another heads up for the Debrecen Summer School - but it is not cheap let alone free).

You can read the tips and sentence discussions or ask specific questions (I have not idea what you mean by "I dont understand anything").

Another cheap alternative is to buy a grammar book - but first you need to know what you don't know.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnWeber786406

Later lessons build on this though. Ezek will become ezeknél, ezekbõl, ezektõl, etc.
Fölött has fölé, fölül.....
That's further down, though.

What you need to know first is:
A városok fölött. - above the city.
Ez fölött a város fölött. - above this city.
Ezek fölött a városok fölött. - above these cities.

The fölött would also need to go after the article when specifying a selection or a group. It's a Hungarian grammar rule that kind of stresses that these cities are the target or what you are saying, and it also surrounds the noun target.

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