"The Korean children are not playing by these trees, but by those."

Translation: A koreai gyerekek nem ezeknél a fáknál játszanak, hanem azoknál.

[CoraCEU]

Is there a way to decide when to use the "-nál" construct and when to use "mellett"? My impression so far is that they can be used interchangeably but that is probably too simple...

[Shamarth]

Often they are interchangeable, but "mellett" is more specific. There are some explanations here

[CoraCEU]

Thanks a lot, that helps!

[tanavar5]

Fáknál - By the trees
Fa mellett - Next to the tree

[JamesTWils]

In the case of a tree, I would say they are really interchangeable, since the tree is essentially radially symmetrical. As an example, though, if we were talking about a house, I would think something would have to be at the side of the house to be ház mellett, while it could be near the front or the back and be háznál.

[JamesTWils]

This insistence on "the most natural" word order is incredibly irritating. As with most declined and agglutinating languages, I see all sorts of word orders in the Hungarian texts I read.

[Judit294350]

There are, however, strict rules about what constitutes a neutral word order. In most cases that is the best choice. In some other cases there is an obvious focus in those cases the focus goes before the verb. In the texts you read the changing word order actually slightly changes the meaning of the sentence.

[JamesTWils]

I agree that the meaning of the sentence, or at least the connotation, changes with a change in word order, but I disagree that a neutral word order is the appropriate translation of a sentence that has absolutely no context. Since it has no context, any sentence in the target language that can be a possible translation of the sentence in the source language should be acceptable.

[JohnWeber786406]

It only adds to the confusion when trying to learn this language.
I got burned with A koreai gyerekek nem játszanak ezeknél a fáknál, hanem azoknál., and don't even know why.

[JohnWeber786406]

Yep - 2 mos later and I see the difference.
Nem ezeknél......
Hanem azoknál!

Keep at it and it becomes easier!

[HeydenP]

A koreai gyerekek nem játszanak ezeknél a fáknál hanem azoknál....I placed the "játszanak" in a different place, but is it wrong?

[Luigi468412]

Dear HeydenP, I made the same mistake with this sentence. I see nobody answered you yet. I guess nobody will answer me. Words order will remain a mistery... as the rest of this course.

[jzsuzsi]

This is just a typical nem-hanem sentence. Contrast: there trees vs. those trees. What is negated? These trees. -> nem goes in front of the negated part -> nem ezeknél a fáknál játszanak.

See this post : https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/29387891

[kos479137]

I can't open the hyperlink in Shamarth's comment from my mobile. I'm hoping s/o will respond so I can open it online.

[Judit294350]

Paste this into your browser https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/16881762