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"Ustedes van a definir el menú."

Translation:You are going to define the menu.

-3
5 years ago

167 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/nake89
nake89
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"You are going to define the menu." does not sound good.

90
Reply25 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DeanG6
DeanG6
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Maybe it doesn't matter that it does not sound good in English. Maybe it's a nonsensical sentence, and there's no point in trying to make sense out of it. Just learn that 'definir = to define' and move on. That's my strategy. :)

21
Reply73 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/serenasimson122

Nah fam.It has to make sense, if it doesn't it could be proper English, but this isn't. Unless you're the owner (this is not understood), then we couldn't say that.

6
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DeanG6
DeanG6
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See what Wgdg says in another comment in this thread....

"Hi! I am a native Spanish speaker. I will try to answer your questions but first sorry for my English, I still learning. Haha. 1) Yes, it is a real phrase 2) It means that the subject of the sentence "Ustedes" are the ones who are going to choose the elements of the menu. For example, imagine that you and your friends are organizing a party and you hire to someone for being the chef. Then, the chef probably will say you: "Ustedes van a definir el menu", because you are the ones who will choose what he should cook. That is all :)"

37
Reply61 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/arcrouch
arcrouch
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Not arguing that definir is the word to use, but I'd think the English translation, rather than define, would be "set the menu."

14
Reply11 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JonTaplac

I agree. To 'define' would be to establish or set the menu. Or to clarify the menu whether in present or in the future

3
1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LobsangC
LobsangCPlus
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Yes; I agree it should be something else too. I came up with "plan the menu". I am thinking like that would be something that the bride and groom would do for instance.

2
5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Chericher
Chericher
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Right on.

0
5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tropicalnut
tropicalnut
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create or make the menu

0
2 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/transkter
transkter
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Define is not the correct term for what you are saying. A chef would 'create' a menu not Define it. To Define means to give the definition either literal meaning or contextual and this is neither of those. The only way this sentence could make sense is if you took out the word 'the' and it then means 'you are going to define the word menu'

6
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Jeffrey855877
Jeffrey855877Plus
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Is definir used this way in other areas? For instance, can "define a report" to set up the elements and format of a report,- as in the head of a company tells his advertising manager the elements he wants in an upcoming series, the manager gets his designers to work, and they all "define" the sales campaign.

2
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LaurettaM1

gracias :)

1
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BartMilner

Thanks - input from native speakers is always really appreciated - no need to apologise, we are all here to learn but btw "I am still learning" - the gerund "learning" needs a verb - usually from to be. . SpanishDict also gives describe, establish, determine, decide for definir - all of which fit your explanation and would make more sense here - not sure if DL accepts them 'tho. http://www.spanishdict.com/translate/definir

1
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ricardo-1977

Gracias...eso ya tiene sentido.

0
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PeterB44

Hi, DeanG6, thank you for your reply, but this doesn't make sense in English - we would choose the menu or write the menu, but Duo doesn't accept either. You saying "just learn it and move on" doesn't help at all - if what we may be learning is rubbish. Create a menu would be a better translation but Duo won't accept "create" as an answer.

0
Reply11 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tejano
tejano
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Thank you for your input, Peter, but it's not rubbish, and it does make sense in English" unless, that is, you have a limited understanding of the definition of "define" itself. The word does not only mean "to give the meaning of a word. " It also means to make up or establish the character of something, to mark out the boundaries or limits of.something, or to state or describe exactly the nature or scope of a thing. In addition to that, there are many synonyms for which define can be substituted or vice versa: determine, establish, fix, specify, designate, decide, stipulate, set out; demarcate, delineate. These all mean the same thing:

  • "The Constitution sets the limits of the law."
  • "The Constitution establishes the limits of the law."
  • "The Constitution determines the limits of the law."
  • "The Constitution stipulates the limits of the law."
  • "The Constitution defines the limits of the law."

So, no, it is not "rubbish" to use the word in other ways.

3
41 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Gom8z

Well said tejano. Just because it is more common to say another phrase does not mean you can't learn further vocabulary. You will only limit yourself in the future.

2
17 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/marsto

That's how I read it but I used "determine" rather than "define" and it was not accepted.

0
Reply4 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MissSpell
MissSpell
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roko2012 suggested this might work in reference to computer programing.
https://www.duolingo.com/comment/960836

12
Reply3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Jeffrey855877
Jeffrey855877Plus
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From the context sentences I've looked up elsewhere, MissSpell and roko2012 seem to be on the right track. Those sentences indicated that definer means something closer to "outline, establish the structure of, establish the parameters and limitations of". In English, we "define" things in the same way - define the limits of a treaty, define the nature and purpose of a program. In this sense, we establish a complete structure, set out its various elements, show how they interact, etc. We end up with a whole thing compromised of various interrelated parts.

But then in English we also have the 'define a word" context, which is a subset of the ideas set out above: by using synonyms and antonyms, contextual sentences, and other linguistic tools, we try to show how a word fits into the structure of our language - but we're not attempting to set limits to a whole thing. The focus can be very narrow. It would only be one small part of the process necessary a definer el menu. Example: in order to definir [español] el menu we "define [English]" duck a l'orange as "roasted duck in orange sauce".

3
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DeanG6
DeanG6
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Yes, that's a very good possible scenario.

0
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Elizabeth261736

At the bottom of this thread, there is an extensive explanation that "define a menu" is used in computer programming. For a food menu, "You are going to create the menu" would be a more natural translation.

9
Reply21 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Fluent2B

It's a little offbeat but there is nothing intrinsically wrong with the sentence.

5
Reply4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Marniesereine

Maybe not wrong but it is not said

9
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tejano
tejano
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How do you know it is not said? The fact that you've not heard it said doesn't mean no one ever would say it.

0
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CKris7

only if you are defining what "menu" means in a dictionary

2
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tejano
tejano
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It is a mistake to think that "define" has only one meaning.

de·fine (dĭ-fīn′) v. de·fined, de·fin·ing, de·fines v.tr.

1. a. To state the precise meaning of (a word or sense of a word, for example).

b. To describe the nature or basic qualities of; explain: define the properties of a new drug; a study that defines people according to their median incomes.

2. a. To make clear the outline or form of; delineate: gentle hills that were defined against the sky.

b. To specify distinctly: define the weapons to be used in limited warfare.

  1. To give form or meaning to: "For him, a life is defined by action"

=== and this:

  1. to state precisely the meaning of (words, terms, etc)

2. to describe the nature, properties, or essential qualities of (smthg)

3. to determine the boundary or extent of

5. to fix with precision; specify

2
Reply11 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Michael307373

lol... As I read through the definitions I was really hoping someone actually posted the various definitions of the word 'menu' after it. Disappointed someone didn't so here you go:

  1. the food available or to be served in a restaurant or at a meal.
  2. a list of commands or options, especially one displayed on screen.

Lesson to all. Just because something sounds unusual doesn't make it wrong. This works perfectly well in the computing world (see #2). See the posts below for more explanation.

2
Reply18 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ehecatotontli
Ehecatotontli
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Yeah it's probably not the actual translation if we're going for meaning and not literality

3
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JCKeasler

Maybe "refine the menu" would be more accurate?

2
Reply4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/WolkZayets
WolkZayets
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Or even "revise the menu", perhaps?

2
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Charles218008

plus, it makes no sense. I think they may mean "decide, choose or determine" the menue

1
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/crisjordan22

Yes, its just wrong. You might create it but you would be more likely to just write it. Just because definir may be used in Spanish does not make define right in English. Spanish Duolingo people should check with English speakers cos they may not be as good as they think they are.

0
Reply10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tejano
tejano
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"Cos" they may not be as good as they think they are? Perhaps instead of dissing Duolingo's staff, you might want to do some actual research, starting with a a dictionary and then a thesaurus. "Cos" the word:"define" has several meanings and applications other than "define a word." And check my reply to the last comment in this thread for a number of examples of "define the menu." By English speakers.

3
Reply110 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Blas_de_Lezo00
Blas_de_Lezo00
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I have never heard this sentence in Spanish! We would say: "Vamos a elegir el menú" or sth like that.

0
Reply7 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/yom_cule

Who defines a menu?

28
Reply15 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Sirgawain

Nobody does ;)

22
Reply15 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/markbooth
markbooth
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The dictionary?

15
Reply4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LukeNewberry
LukeNewberry
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it defines the word 'menu', not a menu

2
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/bjlester

'determine' or 'select' the menu seems to me a better translation than 'define'.

20
Reply15 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mitaine56

And why not, fix the menu?

1
Reply5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Zauber32
Zauber32
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If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

0
Reply12 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DeanG6
DeanG6
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LOL

0
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ScubaDyer

Is there a real Spanish speaker out there? We have been "defining" the menu throughout many exercises. Do Spanish speakers really say this? What does it mean in English? Does it mean "set the menu?"

8
Reply14 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/patrickfar9

"set the menu" sounds plausible. Assuming that the sentence is not as daft in Spanish as it is in English this could be a proper translation.

4
Reply3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/norman1224
norman1224
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We have also been developing a lot of menus.

0
Reply3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Carolyn138

What does that mean?!!!

7
Reply15 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/KickyKat

Lots of discussion here, but we still have not heard from a native Spanish speaker who might tell us: 1) Is this a real phrase in Spanish? and 2) what does it mean? Inquiring minds want to know. :)

6
Reply3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Wgdg
Wgdg
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Hi! I am a native Spanish speaker. I will try to answer your questions but first sorry for my English, I still learning. Haha. 1) Yes, it is a real phrase 2) It means that the subject of the sentence "Ustedes" are the ones who are going to choose the elements of the menu. For example, imagine that you and your friends are organizing a party and you hire to someone for being the chef. Then, the chef probably will say you: "Ustedes van a definir el menu", because you are the ones who will choose what he should cook. That is all :)

28
Reply152 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SusannaEDavis420

Very good! Thank you, Wgdg. Have a lingot.

3
Reply12 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LukeNewberry
LukeNewberry
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That's interesting, but you can't help but think that given the awful English version they couldn't have picked a better example. In English: 'They are going to decide on the menu', I think

0
Reply12 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tejano
tejano
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There is absolutely nothing wrong or "awful" about the English version.

What is absolutely certain is that the phrase is ubiquitous in the computer programming profession, as in this example, one of many:

http://northstar-www.dartmouth.edu/doc/idl/html_6.2/Using_the_Menu_Editor.html

To define menus for your interface, use the Menu Editor, which is shown in the following figure with defined menus. This dialog allows you to define menus, menu items, submenu titles, and submenus, and all their associated event procedures.

3
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LukeNewberry
LukeNewberry
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That's fair enough, I hadn't considered that particular context. But given the context above though (parties, cafes, restaurants, etc. no?), to say 'they are going to define the menu' is not a good translation, at least not in my variety of English (standard British).

2
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TracyS221
TracyS221
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That might be fair enough but then if we were presented with the English and expected to translate it into the Spanish we'd all be moaning because we would never use the word define in the Spanish! It's a pretty delicate balance between teaching us the Spanish way of speaking and teaching the translation techniques! :-)

BTW we all need to vote up KickyKat's comment to move this reply up the list!

0
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Madix99

It's great to hear what's used from a native speaker - we can then use the english equivalent that we would use in that same situation.

0
Reply4 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/brendals

Are these sentences from novelas? They sound pretty dramatic and far-fetched to me.... do native speakers really say such things in everyday life???:?:

3
Reply5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LindajoyFenley

I don't think English speakers would say define. They'd say set the menu, plan the menu or decide the menu. looking at all this discussion, it seems to me that this sentence should be REMOVED from the Duolingo exercise. It's best if the sentence makes sense in English.... and I maintain it does not.

2
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tejano
tejano
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It makes perfect sense. Please, no disrespect intended, but as frequently happens, we have a chorus of people who, when faced with a phrase outside their own experience or region, then declare for the entire English-speaking world, that the phrase either "makes no sense" or "would not be uttered by any native English-speaker."

Well, the English-speaking world is an enormous venue where many nooks and crannies of the language have developed along regional, professional and societal lines, all of which, by the way, have given us that wealth of idiomatic expressions that "don't make sense" taken literally. .

It this case, "define the menu" might very well be used by someone in the process of opening a new restaurant and instructing their chef to develop - or define - the new menu along certain culinary or philosophical lines.

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/checklist-opening-restaurant-4735.html

Marketing Strategy: The marketing strategies that you define for your restaurant will also help to identify the restaurant’s potential of success. [ . . . ]Your selected specialty will help to define the restaurant’s menu, as well as its target market.

What is absolutely certain is that the phrase is ubiquitous within the computer programming profession, as in this example, one of many:

http://northstar-www.dartmouth.edu/doc/idl/html_6.2/Using_the_Menu_Editor.html

To define menus for your interface, use the Menu Editor, which is shown in the following figure with defined menus. This dialog allows you to define menus, menu items, submenu titles, and submenus, and all their associated event procedures.

5
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/crossflow

Thank you - I think there could be more clues as to context in the exercises - perhaps the hover definitions could be more helpful ... I'm a great fan of Reverso context, and a couple of pertinent quotations would go a long way ...

1
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/transkter
transkter
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Wild that word may be specific to that industry I don't think it's useful to learn industry-specific usages for broadly used words that have another meaning. We are all beginners here and so we want to learn the basic usage first. And using the word Define rather than create in the computer industry simply means they have been using unclear language for something there already is a clear word for that has now become a quirky usage for that industry.

-2
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/whigamore1

The use of this language in the computer industry (for several decades, by the way) is neither unclear nor "quirky." It is entirely consistent with long-accepted meanings for "define." Perhaps you should consult a really good and comprehensive dictionary.

2
Reply10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LydiaSande

"You guys are going to define the menu" is perfectly correct.

2
Reply11 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Trebujito1

Hi im native. We dont use "definir el menu" non sense. We say "crear el menu, hacer el menu, elegir el menu, decir el menu" depend of context but never "definir"

1
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/bdbarber
bdbarber
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Thank you, this is what I wanted to know. I was wondering if it might be a common Spanish sentence that just has no common English equivalent. But apparently it is just as nonsensical in Spanish as it is in English.

2
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tejano
tejano
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Aside from providing the meaning of a word, there are other definitions of "define," including:

  • To describe the nature or basic qualities of;
  • To specify distinctly: as in, define the weapons to be used in limited warfare.;
  • To determine the boundary or extent of (of something);
  • To fix with precision; specify;

Can you please explain why, if you were working with a team planning to launch a new chain of restaurants, that it would be "nonsensical" to specify clearly, set the basic qualities of, or fix with precision the items you intend to offer on the menu of your establishments?

As you can see, all these functions are within the meaning of "define." Why is that nonsensical?

(You apparently missed the comment of the native speaker above who wrote" "[I] imagine that you and your friends are organizing a party and you hire to someone for being the chef. Then, the chef probably will say [to] you: "Ustedes van a definir el menu", because you are the ones who will choose what he should cook. ")

1
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Charles218008

In conversational American English we might say "We're going to DO the menu"

0
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Madix99

thanks for your input!

0
Reply4 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/barry_boettger

Regardless of whether the English translation makes sense, can anyone explain why van is a future tense when the conjugation list for ir shows it as present tense? The future tense provided is irán

1
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tejano
tejano
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The phrase is "Ustedes van a definir", where the "van" is taken to mean "You (ustedes) are going" [to do something.represented by the infinitive that follows].

(Present tense Spanish forms can often be interpreted as the English present progressive tense as in "Escribo => "I am writing.")

Anyway, when the objective infinitive is preceded by a conjugated form of "ir," this is exactly like the familiar English "phrasal future " as in "I am going to work on Saturday" or, in Spanish, "Voy a trabajar el sábado."

3
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ygoloeht
ygoloeht
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Maybe, if I were learning spanish with my friends and we were meeting at the Mexican restaurant, one could say "It's your turn..", or "You define the menú". A person could be interpreting or "defining" the menu.

1
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/transkter
transkter
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That would be really very vague and hard to understand. You would have to tell somebody to define the dishes on the menu if you were looking for a translation but in that case why not say translate instead of Define because that is really what you are asking.

-1
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TopKek16

I believe that "describe" should be a suitable definition for "definir" as it would make sense in many more common circumstances.

1
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/transkter
transkter
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Describe implies the menu already exists and in this case they are talking about creating the menu

1
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RobChristiansen

you will define the menu - was accepted

1
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/transkter
transkter
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While some of these other definitions for Define may be true, they are all contextual and the purpose of language is to clarify and specify and in this case the word Define makes the sentence rather unclear and confusing.

1
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/crossflow

If you were a computer programmer you might define the menu. This is the only context that I can think of...

0
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Estudiante-Paul

Had a great meal with my wife last night guys. Before eating we spent about 20 minutes defining the menu haha.

1
Reply5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CeeCeeSong

LOL-"thumbs up!"

0
Reply5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mitcorb

In this instance could "determine" be used for "define"?

0
Reply5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Iago
Iago
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To "define" something is to make it "definite" :)

2
Reply5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/gritajay

I think it's supposed to mean that you are going to tell us what the menu says. (Give the definitions)

0
Reply5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/clawedinvader

I presumed this was being said to kitchen or restaurant staff and it was telling them that they were going to define the (items on the, possibly new,) menu.

1
Reply15 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/transkter
transkter
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Define means to explain or give the meaning of so if you told someone to define something when you actually meant to list something they would give you something entirely different from what you were asking

0
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SLL3
SLL3
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What's an example of "definir" meaning "to make sharp"? I thought this might be one, but it was not accepted.

0
Reply5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/vandermonde

That probably only has to do with images right? I'm just guessing, but "definition" and "sharpness" are only really synonyms in English when you're talking about the clarity of a picture or video.

2
Reply4 years ago